The opposite of power tripping would be negligence.

The ban message is sloppy, and the time to take action was too long, but the actions (ban + removal of comm) were the right call. They probably need more admins, specially to cover hours that others can’t.

That doesn’t seem to be the case. At least, not from the Rust4Linux devs’ side (dunno about Martin, but he’s no kernel dev).

Didn’t the guy who decides on bringing new languages to the kernel(that’s not Christoph Hellwig) specifically said “do bring Rust to the kernel”?

Torvalds? Apparently, yes.

But…that’s exactly what’s happening

Well, then based on what you guys (specially you) are saying, it’s old man screaming at cloud. Torvalds and/or Kroah-Hartman* will likely need to intervene, since as you said they approved it; this drama Martin is doing in social media is pretty much pointless.

And if there’s a violation in the CoC it has zero to do with what he says (calling the R4L project “cancer”); it’s about obstructing other developers.

I also just catch something from the post I didn’t notice before:

As for how to move forward, if I were one of the Rust maintainers, I would just merge the patch

Martin isn’t even relevant! He’s just for the popcorn, like the rest of us! Free kernel development popcorn!

*speaking on Kroah-Hartman, do those changes proposed by the project affect the stable branch now?

TL;DR: stop assuming.

I’m aware that you didn’t use the word “personal”; I did. (Sorry if what I said implied otherwise, it was my bad.) My point is that Martin is making a big deal like Hellwig had some bone to pick specifically against the R4L project and Rust, you know?

Based on the info that I currently have at hand I do think that the project will progress further, against Hellwig’s wish, and this will be a net benefit for the kernel. I just don’t see the big deal that people make of his opposition, he’s just being the old man screaming at cloud.

The modlogs of the other comms are equally crazy! I’m genuinely laughing - the guy is clearly trolling. Kind of expected, he has a comm for conservatives. O.o

I also like this sort of pun - for Portuguese there’s a whole comm of those in Lemmy, !tiodopave@lemmy.eco.br. Some in the same style as the meme, here’s an example:

Rough translation: “The Christmas cement mixer is now on your screen! May all your dreams become concrete” (with “concrete” as both “real, palpable” and that cement mix)

The whole modlog is a PTB-fest.

…I gave the meme a check because of how silly it looks like. Apparently it’s a visual pun, the text can be read like “be a man” (i.e. man up) or “be a leg”.

Your position is entirely reasonable and an excellent example of how ignoring technical details leads to failures of technical leadership.

That’s why I didn’t address the technical merits, like a leader should. (Nor I am a leader; I’m a random with a chimp avatar.) I focused on the “popcorn” / drama.

[ Rust info dump ]

Cool beans.

What I’m saying is that Martin should be sharing this info, instead of creating drama.

Because ultimately the goal of both sides is the same, a better kernel. It’s just that one prioritises consistency (for the sake of maintainability) and another the advantages of Rust over C, and those priorities are in conflict.

And if Hellwig cannot be convinced, the leadership can, and should.

Also, finally, I have to dock [to reduce wage from; to deduct points from] you for reading comprehension. Martin was quite clear: calling Rust a “cancer” […] was, to them, a violation of the Code.

I’m saying that Martin has the moral obligation to make his complain as precise as possible: “The CoC says [insert excerpt] and Hellwig is going against that”. Telling people to RTFCoC is the opposite of that. Is this clear now?

Also, this either is or isn’t a violation of the CoC. There’s no space for “to them”, rule violations should be handled as objectively as reasonably possible. (From a quick check, it doesn’t seem to be one. I might be wrong however.)

a cute pun given Rust’s crab mascot, or a dehumanizing slur, who knows

There’s no room for either reading, given that

• Hellwig shows no interest on Rust, so references to the mascot are out-of-place
• A project is not a human being.

The immediate reading is as an analogy; cancer is known for spreading itself through tendrils, taking huge amounts of resources. If that reading is correct, Hellwig is criticising the project for not being well contained, and invading spaces that Hellwig believes that it shouldn’t.

Another possible reading is “cancer” as “shit”, “crap”, or “rubbish”; a simple negative word.

were it a slur, it would violate the prohibition on “insulting/derogatory comments, and personal or political attacks.”

And were my cat a chicken, she would lay eggs. However my cat is not a chicken and “cancer” is not a slur.

Hector Martin isn’t claiming that Hellwig’s crusade is against Rust, but against R4L.

Fair point.

“Don’t bring new languages into the kernel” is a crusade against R4L.

Still neither a crusade nor a personal one, unless proved contrariwise. It’s just that he’s prioritising some things and the R4L project is prioritising other things.

I am not a programmer. If you showed me C code and called it Rust, or vice versa, I would probably not be able to tell the difference. As such I’m not going to focus on technical merits or demerits, I’ll focus on what people say.

This is relevant:

• [Danilo Krummrich] What does “your code” mean? Duplicated in every driver?
• [Christoph Hellwig] Yes, interfaces to the DMA API should stay in readable C code and not in weird bindings so that it reminds greppable and maintainable.
• [DK] Rust drivers shouldn’t use C APIs directly, but rather use an abstraction of the corresponding C API.
• [CH] Don’t force me to deal with your shiny language of the day.
• [DK] Again, no one asks you to deal with or maintain this piece of Rust code.
• [CH] Maintaining multi-language projects is a pain I have no interest in dealing with. If you want to use something that’s not C, be that assembly or rust you write to C interfaces and deal with the impedence mismatch yourself as far as I’m concerned.
• [DK] This is exactly what we’re doing and proposing here, isn’t it? // We wrote a single piece of Rust code that abstracts the C API for all Rust drivers, which we offer to maintain ourselves. // What else are you asking for?
• [DK] Since there hasn’t been a reply so far, I assume that we’re good with maintaining the DMA Rust abstractions separately. // Hence, the next version of this patch series will have the corresponding maintainer entry.

What I take from this interaction is that Hellwig is not really picking a bone against Rust; his main concern is introducing new languages into the kernel and reducing its maintainability. And IMO Krummrich’s answer up to the second-to-last reply was really great - addressing the complain by highlighting that C developers won’t need to bother with that chunk of Rust code. (That last reply was awful, though.)

Based on this interaction I think that I agree with 5714 in this thread, that Hellwig might be overreaching.

So far, so good. What Hector Martin is doing there is something else. He is not selling the merits of the project Rust4Linux, he’s simply creating drama, by distorting Hellwig’s position from “don’t bring new languages into the kernel” into some sort of personal crusade against Rust.

And it’s rather “curious” how he brings up the CoC as some sort of rubber stick to bash people with, but omits which part of the CoC Hellwig would allegedly have violated.

[@raulinbonn] @marcan He does use the proper name shortly afterwards, but calling it “the another language” instead of just Rust sounds already quite loaded and belittling really. As if trying not to even acknowledge its proper name and existence.

Relevant tidbit: “the another language” sounds like a word-by-word translation from German “die andere Sprache”. It doesn’t really sound dismissive in German (Hellwig is clearly a German speaker.)

“As if trying not to even acknowledge its proper name and existence.” - okay… now the user is assuming = making shit up. It’s perfectly possible that Hellwig simply didn’t call it “Rust” to focus on the fact that his problem is not against Rust, but against a mixed language codebase - the complete opposite of what raulinbonn is assuming.

I’m proficient at Portuguese, Italian, and written English. I can also understand some Latin and German. Plus a few Romance languages through mutual intelligibility.

Due to its relative simplicity, learning Esperanto effectively prepares your brain for learning additional languages, making the process quicker and smoother.

Ah, the propaedeutic effect? I think that Esperanto shows the “guts” of the grammar faster than other languages do, and that helps learning languages with similar features.

I mentioned this in another thread, but might as well develop it here: there’s no “new world order”, it’s “new USA order”. In other words I don’t think that this network state will be able to spread outside USA; it seems to rely too much on USA’s specificities (strong tech centres, and a rather lax gov that allows itself to be toppled).

And, even if the autocoup succeeds and the network state replaces the United-Statian government, the former will only get a fraction of the power of the later. External actors will intervene and grab their chunks of the pizza; and some power will be simply gone (e.g. international soft power - see Trump taunting Commonwealth, EU, some LatAm countries.)

I might be wrong, however. Don’t trust too much what I say.

I just had lunch, it’s 13:18 here. I’m planning to bake some empanadas for the night.

No, I only saw it after I solved the problem.

Automatic ban? PTB unless 1) the ban is because of a domain associated with spam, and 2) there’s an appeal procedure for false positives.

Lenny, you got the same problem as I do: writing huge walls of text, with really long sentences and paragraphs, that are really hard to parse. People lose track of what you’re talking about, so simply paraphrasing excerpts won’t help; you probably need to restructure the whole thing, if you want to be understood.

To make it worse, you’re redirecting the reader over and over, both through links and through indirect references.

This is on-topic here because I don’t think that db0 was power-tripping, but I don’t think that you deserved it. I think that it was just miscommunication; under a quick glance your post linking to buzzly.art doesn’t seem to be about rule enforcement, it sounds more like a rant plus request for advice.

PTB.

What you’re saying is accurate and relevant; you are clearly not trolling, contrariwise to the claim in the modlog. Your tone isn’t even impolite, it’s simply dry. And it’s geared towards the article, not towards other users.

Friday? No, it is not! The week is only at the beginn…
/me looks at the calendar
Damn, it is Friday. This week went through fast!

I’ll probably play some games, work (due to the scorching heat of the last days, I’ve been barely working), take care of my garden, and loaf around in Lemmy. My folks have been asking me to prepare some homemade pizze too, so I’ll likely spend a fair time in the kitchen.