I mean, exactly how invasive are default operating systems? (Like Windows, Mac, Chrome OS, Android, iOS) Do they log your keystrokes, log passwords, capture screen, upload your photos, videos, or audio? (Assuming you aren’t a target of government) Is it even possible for the average person who doesn’t feel comfortable messing with installing operating systems to have any privacy?
Privacy is not binary. There are degrees of privacy that can be achieved. Where you would like to be is totally based on your personal situation. If you are a beginner, understand that privacy is a journey.
Regarding which OSes you could use for your computer if Linux is not an option:
Windows in my experience is the worst offender when it comes to telemetry. It is so ingrained in the OS that you’ll never be certain there isn’t any telemetry regardless of the measures you take. MacOS on the other hand can be configured in such of way that Apple will have very little if any telemetry on you. It also has good permission controls which would cover things like screen capture and logging of keystrokes which you mentioned above. You could do the following:
- Purchase a Macbook
- Opt out of using an Apple Account (as of today it’s optional)
- Opt out of using iCloud
- Opt out of any telemetry
- Turn on built-in firewall
- Turn on disk encryption
- Install Lulu or Little Snitch to block any Apple telemetry
This alone will probably put you in a better position than 99% of people (not an actual statistic).
I’m not a Mac guy, but I get the sense that using a Mac without engaging in any of Apple’s ecosystem would result in a very degraded experience
It might be degraded comparing to default experience but it’s not like you are missing something that you have on other OS. I mean, you can’t iMessage on Linux, right?
I use my Macbook exactly like the points cited before, and i can assure that i’ve had a very good experience. Maybe it’s even better to avoid using AppStore etc…
Honestly it doesnt make the experience much worse in my experience
Agreed. I was using Apple products for more than a decade before switching to Linux and Android, and I opted out of several of their products long before I started considering the privacy aspects of things. For example, I found the experience of using something like iPhoto to be very lackluster. I reluctantly ended up using iCloud due to the superior pricing compared to Dropbox, which I used before. That was a particular nightmare when migrating away from the Apple “ecosystem”.
I’m sure their products cater to many users preferences, but I’m not one of those, and had a better experience using other products. That should’ve made me jump ship way earlier than I did, but a combination of cost (by the time I would’ve changed, I had already purchased a new MacBook which I ended up using for about 6 years) and inertia.
Default OSs are very invasive. Windows, Mac and iOS are constantly spying on everything you do and stock Android is only as private as the apps it comes with which include things like Google Play Services - an app so baked into the system it can only be disabled through adb/root
If you want to read into this - Louis Rossmann made a video on this and this is the paper he mentioned.
possible for the average person who doesn’t feel comfortable messing with installing operating systems to have any privacy?
Yes, depends on how far you are willing to take it.
Replace default apps with FOSS (F-droid)
Delete or disable defaut apps through developer options/adb
Limit the number of permissions you give to apps (your calculator shouldn’t have access to internet or your camera)
Don’t install apps that you don’t trust/need
Block app’s access to the internet with a firewall
Check out r/degoogle on Reddit for many useful resources
For Windows/iOS, etc.: change settings to be more private: give less permissions and turn off telemetry wherever possible.
If you think that’s not enough, consider dual booting a Linux distro like Linux Mint Cinnamon (easy to set up and very beginer-friendly). If you do that you can learn Linux and keep your private data there instead of on Windows/iOS
Mac is less intrusive than Windows. Windows 10 is a whole lot less intrusive than Windows 11. You can lock Windows 10 down even more if you use Shut Up 10. It’s an amazing piece of freeware. Just be aware that Windows will reset a lot of your options after major updates.
Duck Duck Go is more secure than any other search engine and browser. Firefox is next in the list if you’re not on a Mac. Get uBlock Origin and NextDNS.io.
Don’t give your real information to companies when possible. Don’t browse the web logged into Google, Facebook, Reddit, TikTok, etc.
I would say there’s an argument to be made against duckduckgo with how they’re not open source, and the whole allowing Microsoft trackers deal, but it is definitely a better option than google or bing. I don’t understand why you’re mentioning their browser however, as there are definitely much better alternatives.
I’m not as worried by data logged by the os as such, but don’t want it sold to third party ad networks.
I use both macOS and Windows daily for combined work/personal stuff so hard to avoid. I trust Apples use of my data a little more than I trust Microsoft.
All my devices are always behind a VPN and always behind a DNS filter that blocks most vendor tracking from Apple, Microsoft etc. You have to allow a fair bit through for some functionality to work though.
This is a highly loaded question.
You are making a number of very poor assumptions based on a number of ridiculous misconceptions.
The average, everyday, human adult is fully capable of understanding their own personal “threat landscape”. How they deal with that will vary.
For most; if not all, average consumers; their concerns are still very limited. They’re not so much concerned with the provenance, the history, of companies…they just want to duck for the oncoming threats in their landscape. These metaphorical tree branches are what they’re ducking under. They have no logical need to fear the entire tree.
Personally, I choose not to live like Stallman, nor do I have fears of big state repercussions like Snowden does. Neither does your average consumer. Functionality is the top priority. Functionality on-par with the CSSC (Closed-Source Software, Corporate) competitor is critical. If the FLOSS (Free/Libre Open Source Software) version can do exactly what people typically want and expect it to do AND cost less monetarily AND can impact their privacy way less than using the CSSC competitor would, then it will be adopted by many and loved by all who use it.
This isn’t to say that privacy does not matter.
It simply means that privacy is a spectrum; and everyone has varying privacy wants and needs. For some reason, a large potion of the “tech-savvy” people in the FLOSS community feel the need to measure their superiority in “How private their systems are.” The average user does not give a damn about that dick measuring contest; and really would rather not be bothered. They just want the amount of privacy that is right for them, and their specific situation.
It is best to put your ego aside when discussing privacy, or helping someone else to discover and improve their own privacy.
You’ll be a lot less private, but it’s not black and white.
for mobile a low effort approach is to simply buy a dumbphone and a faraday bag and you’re good to go.
We don’t know if they do, but they certainly can. Especially if you are on x86. I’m sure Android (which comes from OEMs) and iOS devices spy on you.
No, you have no respite unless you switch to custom. The good part is that this process is much easier than before (especially on the desktop), and will keep getting easier. Graphene already has their Web installer when you plug your mobile into your computer and let it do its job. Installing Linux is the easiest it has ever been, and I would argue that this trend has creeped into even the more advanced distributions like Gentoo/Funtoo (their guide is extremely well written and easy to follow + forums).
The only thing you are losing is time. If you don’t have the time, then no, you should stick with the easier ROMs/Distributions. I would never espouse using Windows/MacOS/OEM Android/iOS unless forced to by circumstance.
