Surprise surprise, Hexbear users came to brigade other instances exactly the way they said they would. Bad actors through and through.
Learn how federation works, or better yet, go back to reddit.
Is it possible to block all users from an instance at once?
Have you tried shutting your eyes, putting your fingers in your ears and singing loudly
Haha good one!
Ty 😊
Fyi if someone comes across this - best approach on regular lemmy now seems to be to have account with an instance like https://sopuli.xyz/ which has defederated hexbear, lemmygrad, etc. Kbin and some frontend apps allow this as well.
Yes, by logging off.
Haha good one!
What the fuck are you talking about this is at the top of /all/ and it’s about a socialist country, of course socialists are here.
Feel free to point to the “brigade” organisation that exists, it’s a figment of your imagination. Nobody is brigading anything by simply using the fucking site. Are you brigading by being here too then?
Keep pretending China is socialist.
Keep pretending Catholicism has anything to do with socialism.
Keep pretending it isn’t, lib.
You’re the only liberal here for kissing a capitalist nation’s ass.
The kingdom of your God is not socialist, it is a monarchy.
You are brigading as well. This isn’t your instance
lmao hexbear incels trying hard here
Removed by mod
Fuck the CCP
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Your account has been flagged for CCP tankie shill-like activity. Please review These Nuts and never forget that Mao killed more people than Stalin and Hitler combined!
tankie shill-like activity
Please review These Nuts
you should feel embarrassed
clown ass can’t even spell “deez”
I never feel embarrassed around statists
You are gonna make me do a sectarianism
Doing Holocaust denial to own the commies.
Your logic is baffling. Hitler killed millions of people in the Holocaust. Mao killed millions more, yet he’s still a folk hero. Where is the disconnect here?
It’s funny how you clowns keep pretending that the only deaths Hitler caused were the ones that specifically happened in the death camps, as if he didn’t literally start WWII. And meanwhile you insist that every single stubbed toe and premature ejaculation that ever happened in a socialist country should be added to the “victims of communism” death toll.
The double standard is baffling.
That the only way you can come to the conclusion that Mao “killed more” is if you’re deliberately downplaying how many Hitler killed, aka Holocaust denial.
I may have missed the lesson where numbers aren’t allowed to be bigger than other numbers, so let me rephrase this in a way you might be able to understand. The most conservative estimate of famine deaths during the Great Leap Forward (backward) is greater than the ENTIRE European Jewish population in 1933 by at least six million.
Famines were extremely common before the CPC came to power. Most Chinese people lived in extreme poverty, and life expectancy was less than 35, with no significant improvement under the KMT. In between Mao coming to power and his death, life expectancy in China nearly doubled. Today, average life expectancy in China has exceeded that of the US, a feat that would’ve been unimaginable back then.
It’s true that Mao made misteps (which the CPC readily admits), but those specific, dramatic events have been disproportionately elevated to obscure the more general trend, which has been drastic improvements in the lives of the people of China.
Of course, in addition to minimizing the frequency and severity of famines in pre-industrial China, your history books likely did not place the same level of blame on the British for the intentional famines which Ireland and India were subjected to, in which Britain did not only refuse to provide aid to their colonial subjects (often on the express basis that it would motivate people to work harder), but also did not cease their plundering - in both cases, food was exported out of the country while the people starved.
Source: it came to me in a dream.
I also like how you’re deliberately trying to whitewash Hitler by ignoring all the non-Jewish deaths he was responsible for.
Seriously, you’re trying to argue that Mao “killed” every single person who starved to death in a famine, but Hitler is completely innocent of any of the deaths that occurred in World War 2. It’s a double standard no one would employ unless they were trying to downplay Hitler’s crimes.
pretending hitler only killed jews is holocaust denial
Removed by mod
Meanwhile in the real world https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4331212/
China’s growth in life expectancy between 1950 and 1980 ranks as among the most rapid sustained increases in documented global history.
louder, for everyone in the back.
CHINA’S GROWTH IN LIFE EXPECTANCY BETWEEN 1950 AND 1980 RANKS AS AMONG THE MOST RAPID SUSTAINED INCREASES IN DOCUMENTED GLOBAL HISTORY.
:mao-wave:
Spoken like true fascists.
I am once again asking liberals to learn that fascism doesn’t just mean “something I don’t like”
unironically using the word “tankie” in 2023
Hog out or log out, dronie
lmao just casual holocaust denial
make fun of a liberal and a fascist cries
life is hard for you NAFO trolls now that you’re off reddit
My dude calls people statists but then also cites death tolls spouted by the US State department on Mao’s casualties is a level of mental gymnastics that may finally dethrone the Maga morons.
I’m sure there’s some explanation for how Mao killed 100,000,000 people but somehow the population of China went up and the life expectancy doubled under him. It can’t be because the US stat dept. exaggerated the deaths by an exponent tho.
这个老外真过瘾，哈哈
China is fascist now, they can go on calling themselves communist in a vain attempt to have something resembling legitimacy. But any fool knows that when the ruling party is full of billionaires, that’s no communist system.
They Chinese people are a great people and deserve a better government than the fascist regime lead by Winnie Xi Pooh.
Didnt take long for the nafo chud to bust out the racism, did it?
How is it racism to say Chinese people are great people?
It’s just their government sucks. They deserve better.
I’m excited to hear you explain how comparing a Chinese man to a cartoon character with yellow skin and beady eyes isn’t racist
Because it’s not saying Chinese people look like Winnie the Pooh. It’s only Xi looks like Winnie the Pooh. Do you understand the distinction between insulting an ethnicity and insulting an individual?
And you must’ve been living under a rock (or behind a firewall in an authoritarian country) if you’ve never heard of Xi being compared to Winnie the Pooh. I hear he’s sensitive about it, and it’s banned to make such statements in China. But since I’m not in China and Xi is a piece of shit, this incentivizes me to insult that shithead in ways that hurts his fragile little ego.
Oh bother!
Xi is Chinese you dipshit, you are comparing a Chinese man to a cartoon character with yellow skin and beady eyes. Please, continue.
NAFO fascist
Damn, you figured out that I’m part of a super secret intelligence agency.
Now I’ll have to go to the safehouse, get plastic surgery to change my appearance, dye my hair, burn off my finger prints, get new passports.
Again! How does this keep happening?
ERROR! Does not compute.
Please submit pictures of your penis to /c/chapotraphouse to proceed.
I know we are a great people. I am Chinese.
You have it wrong. The Communist Party isnt producing billionaires or getting rich through corruption (at least not in the recent decade of anti corruption). Billionaires join the CPC for THEIR benefit, clout and image.
China is the only country that actually punishes billionaires for their crimes instead of giving them a slap on the wrist, house arrest or just straight up not punishing them. China executes billionaires when they commit a crime. Liu Han ordered a Mafia hit on a villager who protested one of his illegal real estate expansions, as well as a business rival. He was executed for murder. China is the only country in the world that would sentence someone worth $40 billion, let alone to death, let alone not given a presidential pardon. Jack Ma regularly oversteps and gets punished by the CPC.
The only billionaire the west has executed is Jeff Epstein (for entirely the wrong reasons). China’s executed 14+ in the last decade.
If there was a snap election todaty in China with 100% voter turnout, the Communist Party would be re-elected tonight. The party responsible for improving the lives for 1.4 billion people actually isn’t disliked in China. The Chinese are not without grievances with the government but literally no other political system in the world has matched Chinese progress over the last 70 years. The average Chinese person isn’t unaware of western Liberal democracy, it simply isn’t appealing. A system that’s basically a popularity contest that elects senile old men, cowboy actors and reality TV stars that have no business being statesmen is actually not a good system. Having lifetime appointed judges to interpret the words of long dead slave owners is not a good system. Having a leadership spill and a change of prime minister every year is not a good system. We can improve on freedom of expression, sure, but the Chinese people aren’t sheep who need to be liberated. Neoliberalism is the failure in the world, not the Chinese model.
Billionaires join the CPC for THEIR benefit, clout and image.
Yeah that’s how it works in a fascist system. The wealthy join the ruling party and gain connections to other wealthy people so they can all become wealthier.
The existence of billionaires in China indicates that China is not communist. If it were communist the wealth of the billionaires would be seized and redistributed to the people. China is a country where billionaires are legal and labour unions are illegal.
And your obsession with executions is indicative devaluing life. And it’s interesting that you buy into the conspiracy that Epstein was killed to silence him but haven’t considered the possibility that executions happen in China for the same reason.
If there was a snap election todaty in China with 100% voter turnout, the Communist Party would be re-elected tonight.
Then why isn’t there an election? Why aren’t opposition parties allowed in China? If the CCP would easily win an election, why not have them?
It’s because China is fascist. I think you’re confusing fascism with corporatism. They’re not at all the same. in fascism there’s a hierachy and corporations benefit by falling in line with the hierarchy. Winnie Xi Pooh (who shouldn’t even be leader, but pesky rules bout term limits don’t apply to autocrats) is at the top. Questioning his authority gets you executed. The leadership of China is most certainly misogynistic. The propaganda in China is all about century of humiliation kind of things. China is anti-democracy. These are all the properties of a fascist system.
And yeah fascists will lie about being left wing. See “National Socialism”.
Billionaires exist as a necessary evil, they’re not deities like they are to the west like Gates or Bezos, or a pillar of power like Russian oligarchs. China may not be Marxist as it is, but to completely cut away from the rest of the globe would be suicide. Market socialism relies on being a necessary part of the global economy, and China being able to manufacture in it’s current state while being able to raise the conditions of the proletariat makes it either the worst socialist state or the best capitalist state. Neither is worth of the vitriol it has received. If they must exist, better they exist for the benefit of the people rather than own media companies that push right wing agenda.
The fixation with executions comes from the accusation that billionaires are in charge. It they truly were, they wouldn’t be subject to the same laws as the common folk, and yet herr they are. Unlike Russia or the west, they are held accountable for their actions to a higher degree. All else equal, the CPC treats billionaires worse than any other form of government, and that’s not a bad thing.
For your second point re: elections: Why? The US doesn’t even have free elections, an electoral college overrules pupular vote, nor does the UK, the king and house of Lords aren’t subject to democracy. The Soviets had a free election in 91, voted to remain socialist,nand it was hijacked by the west. Allende was democratically elected and the west supported the usurper. An election while liberalism exists is just inviting interference. Taiwan didn’t have elections for 4 decades and were still beloved by liberalss. The house of Saud doesn’t have elections, did 9/11 and is a close US ally.
If the outcome is obvious, why waste time and resources to indulge western sensibilities, as if bourgeoisie democracy is a human norm, when you can skip that step and move on with increasing society? If it just leads to a Chinese Jan 6th, or worse, why would that possibly be on the table? The CPC would win and somehow the losers would obtain US military grade weapons and seize power. And even if there were no interference and the CPC won anyway, guess what? Every paper in the west would claim it was rigged.
Ren Zhengfei, the CEO of Huawei, has had people arrested and thrown into a dungeon. Billionaires here don’t have that level of power.
You keep imagining yourself as some communist revolutionary, but you’re just another useful idiot that’s been fooled by fascist propaganda.
You should know that fascists are liars and will even label themselves as “communist” if it furthers their goals of acquiring power.
After the ruling party of China did the Tiananmen Square massacre (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre) and got away with it, they shifted to being fascist thugs whose only goal was to maintain and expand their power.
If you’re gonna support fascist thugs, at least be honest about who they are. You look really silly otherwise.
Source? Zhengfei couldn’t even keep his own daughter out of prison. Xi has been the one to crack down on billionaires (part of why a lot of my family like him better than Hu) so if it happened ages ago, I don’t remember. Even so, he’s less wealthy than Jack Ma, who is subject to the CPC’s rules, not vice versa.
All I know is the CPC has done more for the working class, lifted more workers out of poverty than any of the government’s that have earned your respect.
If all they wanted to do post 1989 was to maintain and expand power why the fuck haven’t they? Mongolia is right there, the Qing annexed it, the ROC annexed it, but the PRC can’t? Why forgive loans for Africa?
Why exempt Tibetans and Uyghurs and Mongolians from the One Child Policy? What kind of fascism does population control on the Han majority but not the minorities in their country?
If the goal was to acquire power, there are dozens of regimes that have done a better job at seizing absolute power, but instead the CPC open up more? The Juche government of the DPRK has absolute power, why didn’t China cloister itself from the world like pre Deng? Or start proxy wars in foreign countries to push nationalist jingoism?
I support my countrymen, no fascist thugs. If you’ve ever been to China you’d know it’s not some Orwellian nightmare state. Listening to the media’s portrayal of China when they lie or twist the truth on just about anything else is the brain worm talking. China’s fascist like Saddam has WMDs.
Think about where you’ve gotten your conception of China from and question whether or not they’re biased. You’re talking to someone with first hand experience in China.
where do you even get this nonsense from?
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also, ew, nafo
Can you please for the sake of our understanding, give your definition of the word ‘fascism’?
Authoritarian and anti-democracy, characterized by misogyny, propaganda about past grievances.
China ticks all the boxes. It’s definitely not communist anymore because billionaires exist there.
What a useless definition. It doesn’t even consider the class character of fascism.
Authoritarian is a useless word. It literally could be used to describe any state.
China is actually highly democratic, but that would require expanding your bourgeois ideas about democracy and understanding how their system actually works in practice.
Misogyny is a problem everywhere and is in no way unique to fascism or any political economy, is predates capitalism by thousands of years. I agree it should be abolished, and that is what socialism aspires to do. But the idea that it can be eliminated by flipping a switch is idealist and unrealistic. There is plenty of truth to the critique that patriarchy still exists in China, but the PRC has maybe also done more than any other state to end some of the most oppressive forms of misogyny, for the most number of women, in history.
Propaganda about past grievances? That is too vague to be meaningful either. Some past grievances, like the Japanese war crimes in China, are legitimate. Others, like conspiracies about “judeo-bolshevism” are not. The term “propaganda” here is loaded too, like if the US government does its best to bury its history of chattel slavery (like it is doing in florida, for instance), would it be “propaganda about past grievances” to fight back against that? Would you tell the grandchild of a slave in Florida that by spreading information as wide as possible to the people about the crime of slavery it is somehow fascist? it makes no sense
Authoritarian is a useless word.
If you’re living in a place where they will drive over you with a tank if you protest the rulers, you’re living in an authoritarian state. This isn’t exacltly a subtle thing.
Misogyny is a problem everywhere and is in no way unique to fascism or any political economy, is predates capitalism by thousands of years.
I’m not talking about a few weird comments here and there. I’m talking about the ruling class in China raping women and getting away with it because it’s considered ok for the rulers to rape women in their society. Because it’s a fascist society. Communism is supposed to espouse equality between men and women. But China isn’t communist anymore.
Propaganda about past grievances? That is too vague to be meaningful either.
“Century of humiliation! We must allow strongman Xi to rule over us for as long he wants to fight back against the westerners trying to humiliate us!”
This is standard fascist propaganda, fear of outsiders, citing past grievances as a reason for needing a strongman ruler.
In reality it’s the CCP is humiliating the Chinese people. It’s a garbage government. The people of China deserve better.
“The people of China deserve better. Good thing they have me to decide for them”
You either made up stuff, or never really addressed my points, so I am going to have to refer you to this insightful guide.
Wow, so brave
Go cry more, nationalist
Oh, yet another debate pervert showing us their best points
so brave
IDK dude that’s a lot of sex
Lots of suspicious comments in this thread. Seems like political astro-turfing has already arrived on Lemmy
You mean the ones from hexbear aka lemmygrad-lite?
Possibly, I didn’t look where they’re all from, nor do I know what hexbear is or why it’s significant. Sounds like some kind of intra-Lemmy drama which I’m not too interested in. Just noticed a fair amount, lets say…not totally organic, seemingly agenda pushing comments.
Edit: Forget my previous comment. I now see the problem with Hexbear.
agenda pushing is when people have an opinion that doesn’t align with my own
No it’s when there’s mysteriously dozens of comments just magically showing up that are contrary to the vastly popular opinion on only one contentious issue, that serve the best interests of an entity with the time, resources to try to sway public opinion through fake grassroots posting. Also that entity has a fragile ego and a long history of online manipulation…oh and also coincidentally they are all coming from the same server
entity with the time, resources to try to sway public opinion
why would any foreign political entity waste its valuable english proficient resources on astroturfing an online backwater filled with politically illiterate nobodies? peak liberal solipsism
It would appear that way yes…and as mentioned, they have a history of having extremely thin skin and doing exactly that. So do I expect some group to do the exact thing they have always done? Yes. Yes I do.
maaaaybe we weren’t federated until this week. but nah, paid bots makes more sense.
Vastly popular opinion held by whom?
lol, so your issue is that people with similar opinions happen to be on the same server? truly the most obvious evidence of agenda pushing!
I love how liberals think anybody who’s outside of their echo chamber must be a paid shill. It’s absolutely inconceivable to them that there is a significant amount of people who have contrary opinions.
Damn wish my fragile ego could manipulate you into not being such a flaming
Hexbear is a large, leftist instance, that just recently federated, and most of us are pro-China. We’re not bots and we’re not getting paid, but we’re not shy about our political views. That’s the reason you’re suddenly seeing a bunch more comments defending China.
Excuse you, Lemmygrad is Hexbear-lite
communists are able to see weak lies like these, shocking! WowWEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Yea, it feels like 4chan suddenly saw the light and then turned far-left all at once. They act like what the far right imagines the left to be like, but just looks like really bad anti-leftist propaganda, or they’re just tankies :/ some hexbears are ok, though, but most here are just discrediting themselves by throwing the propaganda handbook at the passersby.
We keep throwing books at you because we desperately wish you’d read.
You are so far right that you call anything and everything to your left astroturfing. You’ve been in a bubble for so long that it’s a culture shock when you meet actual leftists.
Oh, yes. Actual leftists that somehow support every action of a particular nation. Actual leftists who don’t mind government control of information and gives incentives for supporting them publicly. Actual leftists that are ok with some people being removed from society because of the groups they belong to. Yep, totally sounds like actual leftists to me…
Actual leftists who don’t mind government control of information
Yes, actual leftists. I’m going to quote to you some Marx. This is from Chapter 2 of the Communist Manifesto which is basically a 30 page pamphlet, I suggest you read it. I want you to pay particular attention to number 6.
The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralise all instruments of production in the hands of the State, i.e., of the proletariat organised as the ruling class; and to increase the total productive forces as rapidly as possible.
Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads on the rights of property, and on the conditions of bourgeois production; by means of measures, therefore, which appear economically insufficient and untenable, but which, in the course of the movement, outstrip themselves, necessitate further inroads upon the old social order, and are unavoidable as a means of entirely revolutionising the mode of production.
These measures will, of course, be different in different countries.
Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.
-
Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
-
A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
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Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
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Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
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Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
-
Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
-
Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
-
Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
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Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
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Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c, &c.
As you can see, nothing here is at odds with that.
Actual leftists that are ok with some people being removed from society because of the groups they belong to.
What groups? If you’re about to use Adrian Zenz as a source you are a joke. If you’re instead claiming that working to abolish the existence of the bourgeoisie is a bad thing you are a clown.
You didn’t just dunk him, you folded him into a ball and threw him into the sun
I don’t understand how people don’t understand that control of the means of communication in the hands of the proletariat is a MUST to create a DOTP. Who the fuck do they think owns the media? The proles? Fuck no, the bourgeoisie own the media. It’s ALL their media.
To empower the proletariat in the transitionary socialist state you MUST remove the advantages of the bourgeoisie. This is one of the biggest of them.
Must?
These measures will, of course, be different in different countries
Also note this part:
Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads on the rights of property, and on the conditions of bourgeois production…
Notice, “in the beginning.” Is China socialist or not? It is not the begining. The need to control the means of communication, as well as most of the rest of the goals, is to gain power over the bourgeoisie and place the power into the hands of the people. The means of communication must be seized in order to empower the people to communicate without their interference. How is the control that China has over communication providing for that and not the bourgeoisie itself controlling the media to prevent the people from communicating?
Socialism is the transitionary state between capitalism and communism. It exists in a state of warfare between the proletariat and the bourgeoisie.
We are very far away from defeating capitalism and such measures will remain in place until we have defeated it globally. What the fuck are you thinking? “Yes I want to give billionaires the ability to own media in my proletarian state so they can spew garbage propaganda until their counter-revolution succeeds”. Are you out of your mind? What exactly do you gain from this? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. All you are advocating for is empowering the bourgeoisie to crush and re-exploit you.
-
Actual leftists that are ok with some people being removed from society because of the groups they belong to.
Some people should be removed from society based on the groups they belong to. Nazis, for example. Pedophiles, probably. And definitely people who put pineapple on pizza.
No, they should be removed from society based on what they want to do. I don’t think the children of nazis should be removed just because they’re a part of that group.
Ideological belief is not a trait that is automatically passed on to children. Children of Liberals aren’t automatically liberals. Children of conservatives aren’t automatically conservatives.
Yes, which is why they shouldn’t be removed for being a part of a group. They are a part of it as children though.
Do you share 100% of the ideological beliefs of your parents? Have you done so from birth?
Ideological belief is not a trait that is automatically passed on to children.
ck2 brain
edit: i mean 3 whatever
I was with you until the pineapple slander. It’s good on pizza folks, put it on there.
The topic at hand is Western media drumming up support for the US’s next foreign policy disaster. The same way they did for Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Vietnam and so, so many others. I would have called this bullshit before I became a communist. You don’t need Marxist theory to see through the bullshit, just object permanence.
You’ve been in a bubble
Yeah because when all these “lefts” come from seemingly one instance (maybe two) they are totally not “living in a bubble” on their own.
China is not leftist
Yes it is. Your failure to understand China’s structure and its goals is a personal failure on your part to seek that information, the information is out there.
I recommend reading this article, from Vijay Prashad’s organisation the Tricontinental Institute. It will give you a good run down on China’s movement through stages of production and its current goals. If you want to argue Vijay Prashad and his organisation are not leftist you’ll have to take that up with Noam Chomsky as well since they work together on practically everything now.
If reading is too much for you (I suspect it is or you wouldn’t hold this opinion) then here is a very brief video by Professor Richard Wolff where he cites China as responsible for the globally rising interest in marxism.
If alternatively your position is that marxism is not leftist, you are a right wing clown and politically illiterate.
I am not near left or right, a 1 line axis is not enough to put all the political positions into account.
After reading the first link, socialism is kindof interesting at its core, but in china you have a person that controls eveything, China is a totalitarian state capitalist system. While Socialism would give people freedom, China is doing the opposite. I am not fully invested into this topic but you can’t tell me that stealing Money from bank accounts, allowing companies to do stupid investments that will become waste just to rise some numbers. Generally forbiding the fact that you have issues (disabled) or are different (religion or sexuality) is really just showing how similar this is to Hitlers time.
In Germany we have the Bundestag and its neither leftist or rightist as you elect the group you like which can be left-ist or right-ist, a group of multiple groups will be build for the few years that have together 50%. So if there is onr far-right group or far-left one, they won’t be able to actually do all the harm except people elect that group 50%.
Besides having every few years either same or slight different groups that regime, there is also the Grundgesetz which protect the Human rights at its core and is not changable except all 2 buildings and 1 person allow for this. With this, everthing should be possible while having freedom.
But for China I really don’t know what is the right thing. Its no different than America with capitalism at many levels because both intoxicate the human rights and nature environment. Somethinf like a Bundestag for China doesn’t seem like a great idea if it would be the main thing, because China wants to grow and the Bundestag is too slow for direct and instant changes. But without, you can see corruption at many corners in China.
but in china you have a person that controls eveything
You need to do a lot more reading if you believe this
I guess you missed the point that one person has the decision to control everything, of course there will be different groups controlling the details, but this is the person who is able to change. Just saying that I should read is pretty much stupid to say, you also just could say nothing, the message would be equal.
But i just gonna be you for a moment: If you do not believe this, you need to do a lot more reading.
Just send me your articles or whatever to justify whatever you mean and don’t be a dick.
I guess you missed the point that one person has the decision to control everything
Again, not true.
I guess you missed the point that one person has the decision to control everything
No, he’s saying you’re wrong (and you are). In China there isn’t one person who controls everything. They have millions of elected officials, you don’t have any clue what you’re talking about.
I am not near left or right
So you are ignorant. Its ok we have all been there. To live is to learn. I would have an essay very similar to yours a couple years ago. Then I started doing some reading.
Essentially leftism v rightism boils down to either you think people all all equals and should be treated equally regardless or you believe some people are superior to others and should get to treat others as lesser. Its simple as that.
If you say something is simple, then you are actually ignorant, literally. Its like saying: “There are only white and black people, simple as that.”
Politics is way more complex and diverse, if you are only able to think in one direction then just don reply to me wtf.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum
You also said “Its ok” and included that “all” have been there but its only you and the bubble community you live in like you are some superior peace of ****
If you say something is simple, then you are actually ignorant,
I didn’t say all of politics is simple. I said right vs Left is simple. Its an classification system made for the sole purpose of making a complex thing simple.
Its like you are getting hostile at me for saying “using google translate is simple” and saying “Translation is super hard. Learning a new language takes years and even then the subtleties of idioms and the nuance of culture play a significant role in how people speak. bridging the gap between two languages is super complex”
You also said “Its ok” and included that “all” have been there but its only you and the bubble community you live in like you are some superior peace of ****
I’m sorry if my tone came off as condescending but is Understanding not superior to ignorance? Ignorance is a natural state. We naturally transition from ignorance into understanding on many subjects through out our lives. There is no shame in that. clinging to ignorance however is shameful. Realizing you are ignorant is the first step to understanding. The next step is finding more information. I was just trying to encourage you. No need to be so defensive.
Politics is way more complex and diverse, if you are only able to think in one direction then just don reply to me wtf.
unironically links political spectrum
Bruh
I know right! How come there are so, so many people defending China here? I thought they were the minority. Ugh. When I was back on Reddit comments like those would always be downvoted to hell.
If you can’t cope with people with different political beliefs to you being allowed to post, maybe you should go back to reddit.
I’m fine with people with different opinions than my own posting. It’s just the number of such people surprises me.
ps. I will not go back to reddit
You had it explained where they came from, and just ignored it so you could continue with your paranoid conspiracy theory.
Why not go back to reddit? You’ll like it there, they also have the extreme solipsism to think anyone who disagrees with them is a paid foreigner
I don’t even have a theory.
Clearly
You had it explained where they came from, and just ignored it so you could continue with your paranoid conspiracy theory.
I never had a “paranoid conspiracy theory” to begin with.
Go back to watching your Fox News
gee are you a bot
Go back to watching your Fox News
ok seems like you’re a bot
Seems like you believe Fox News bullshit
I hate fox news
When I was back on Reddit comments like those would always be downvoted to hell.
It might be worth keeping in mind that Reddit has, for several years now, biased its moderation policy against the sort of voices who would object to OP, creating a neoliberal echochamber across most of the website.
it’s just liberalism. it permeates the very air we breath.
Unless you have investigated a problem, you will be deprived of the right to speak on it.
Isn’t that too harsh? Not in the least.
When you have not probed into a problem, into the present facts and its past history, and know nothing of its essentials, whatever you say about it will undoubtedly be nonsense.
Removed by mod
Unlike Reddit, where the news pieces and opinions that are the most prominently featured are not influenced in any way, shape, or form by powerful institutions who want to push an agenda
A specter haunts the Lemmyverse. The specter of differing opinions 😱😱😱
:
The specter of Hexbear
Why would anybody astroturf this shitty fucking website lmfao
They are watching, to think otherwise is foolish
Clearly, we’ve graduated from shitty fucking to just shitty.
We have a lot of pro empire shills here after the reddit migration.
They’re laughable. I’ve gotten like 30 replies to 1 comment and then they say “You seem mad” Yes…I’m the mad one. 🙄
Please calm down, I’m worried about your mental health please
You seem upset
Goddammit, I do NOT want us to be propping up a war in Ukraine and fighting an actual war with China.
Nobody wants to have to defend free and sovereign nations such as Ukraine and Taiwan from agressive expansionist foreign powers like China and Russia. But here we are.
You realize the identification zone is not the same as airspace right?
“Ten Chinese air force aircraft entered Taiwan’s air defence zone on Wednesday”
The article says ADIZ, not airspace.
LETS GOOOOOOOOOO LONG LIVE THE PRC WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
ONE CHINA
BEST CHINA
What the fuck? Why are we endorsing fascist state capitalists?
Surely I would not endorse Catholicism. Because in Abrahamic religions it does not matter how they sugarcoat it, you are kinda being a ‘slave’ (with no better word to describe it) to your deity.
They’re obviously not fascist, and you’d know that if you were being honest about it and bothered educating yourself both on what fascism is, and on the realities of the PRC.
Also, it’s not “state capitalism”. They do use a market economy in addition to a planned economy, as part of the overall socialist economic system. It’s not a binary either-or; using a market economy doesn’t mean it’s capitalism, and planned economy (intervention) doesn’t mean it’s socialism. They’re structural terms, and relate to purpose: capitalism’s purpose is to maximally extract profit and concentrate wealth; socialism’s purpose is to better the lives (materially and culturally) of its people. China, as a socialist system, takes advantage of the benefits that a market economy can offer (efficiency, competition, resource allocation, demand and pricing signals) but doesn’t use it to extract and concentrate wealth: instead, it uses the net benefits of the market economy to benefit the people. Similarly, a purely planned economy can be very stable and fair but is prone to stagnation and slow progress. By using both systems simultaneously, taking the relative advantages of each, China is able to benefit from efficiency and stability. There’s also no pure free market economy: every capitalist economy has degrees of government intervention (another name for planned economy), especially in times of crises.
Tell me this, does this supposed “socialist system” have workers owning the means of production? How are factory conditions again? Hell you can’t even particularly call them a social democracy, they don’t have complete universal healthcare like Europe yet, and they have less than half the paid leave! Socialist system with billionaires, LMFAO (I don’t care if the rules are stricter and they’re held more accountable, the fact they exist in the first place is pure capitalism).
And I’m calling them fascist because of how they treat political dissidents and minorities.
You ever notice how America seems unable to meaningfully damage China’s economy?
This is because China’s economy is integral to everyone else’s. You can’t really hurt China without hurting yourself. Their annual trade volume is in the trillions of dollars.
China paid a price for this leverage. The price was allowing capitalists to operate within China. That is how you do business with the rest of the capitalist world.
They are just showing us what non-imperialism looks like
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Taiwan, which China claims as its territory, has repeatedly complained of Chinese military activity near it over the past three years, as Beijing steps up pressure to try to force the island to accept its sovereignty.
Taiwan’s defence ministry said that starting at around 9 a.m. (0100 GMT), it detected a total of 25 Chinese aircraft engaging in operations out at sea, including J-10 and J-16 fighters, as well as H-6 bombers.
The ADIZ is a broad area Taiwan monitors and patrols to give its forces more time to respond to threats, and Chinese aircraft have not entered territorial Taiwanese air space.
China staged war games around Taiwan in April after President Tsai Ing-wen returned home from a visit to the United States where she met U.S. House Speaker Kevin McCarthy.
Taiwan Vice President William Lai leaves for the United States this week on his way to Paraguay on what is officially only a transit but which has angered China.
Taiwan’s democratically elected government rejects China’s sovereignty claim and says only the island’s people can decide their future.
I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Dumb comment. Taiwan isn’t a country and they certainly aren’t a democracy
okay guys , so since this hole federation stuff your Pro Imperial Wrong Takes comes my way , it must be corrected …
this is Taiwans Air Identification Zone
it is a Bullshit leftover that spans so vast over china that it simply can not be not violated ,…
theirby producing the most wonderfull “Permanent - Saturaton - Propaganda” of China Bad Bakround noise for the Imperial core audience in their Echo Chambers .PS: this is where real Journalist go in the west , when they start beeing critical of non approved subjects.
“Good thing propaganda only ever happens to other people”
Is this that stupid shit where their air defense zone covers a huge chunk of mainland China and they freak out every time China flies Chinese planes over China?
Ten Chinese air force aircraft entered Taiwan’s air defence zone . . . Of those aircraft, the ministry said 10 had either crossed the median line of the Taiwan Strait, which previously served as an unofficial barrier between the two sides, or entered the southwestern part of Taiwan’s air defence identification zone, or ADIZ.
For those unfamiliar with the Air Defense Identification Zone:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Defense_Identification_Zone_(Taiwan)
Not only does it include a lot of water that isn’t part of the Strait, right off of China’s coast, it also includes a portion of Mainland China a few times larger than Taiwan itself.
People like to talk like China is flying jets over Taipei City, but you can fly a plane from one city in Mainland China to another, only passing over land, and be in this zone. Mind you, I don’t think Taiwan having this zone is bad – countries generally should be aware of air traffic nearby – but this is part of a long history of alarmist headlines by western media regarding what is often very uninteresting air traffic in the PRC.
So Chinese bots are on lemmy too now. You obviously didn’t read the article - “Of those aircraft, the ministry said 10 had either crossed the median line of the Taiwan Strait, which previously served as an unofficial barrier between the two sides, or entered the southwestern part of Taiwan’s air defence identification zone, or ADIZ.”
In international relations, militaries have defined and at times unspoken rules of engagement. This was NOT routine flight over mainland China that you are making out to be, but was a clear breach of said protocols. Thus Taiwan sent its fighter jets to observe the Chinese military aircraft.
Everyone who disagrees with me must be a bot.
I bet your response will contain one of more of the following: Winnie the Pooh, social credit, comrade, Uyghurs. Yet you call others bots, lmao.
Evergreen Goosplan meme.
Uyghurs are experiencing a genocide in China and you think it’s spamming to bring it up?
I can’t believe people are still trying to peddle this conspiracy theory in year 2023.
Did you hear that on Fox News?
First day? Lemmygrad brigades every worldnews thread about China or Russia.
Learn how federation works. Or better yet, go back to reddit.
You seem upset
Do you have anything to contribute or are you just trolling?
Seems reasonable
U mad?
You both quoted the same exact piece of text. You said they didn’t read the article but you didn’t even bother to read their comment?
You are calling a human being a bot, literally dehumanizing them, because they don’t have the same hatred of China as you. You should really check yourself. You are full of hatred and ideological poison. It is clear from your comment that you have limited literacy skills and understanding, you should check out some other perspectives and try to broaden your horizons. Here is one. This is also another incredible resource with a lot of essays and information with a different perspective
Oh another no post history user! welcome to fediverse!
the user you just replied to made their account a year ago and has an extensive post history
We should give @RandAlThor@lemmy.ca benefit of the doubt. Sometimes when people view other’s profile from another instance, the post history shows up empty.
benefit of the doubt.
And yet that dude is the one calling people bots
No no never engage their statement on it’s alleged merits. Kick them in the [redacted] and then ask them why they can’t walk while laughing. It is the weirding way.
I’m so tired of the notion that anyone not being in line with certain narratives is automatically considered a drone.
So Chinese bots are on lemmy too now
I literally quoted the part that you just also quoted, which specifies that some of the craft were merely in the ADIZ, the one thing I was talking about in my comment
back to reddit with you
So Chinese bots are on lemmy too now.
Amazing how comfortable you are being racist on a public forum.
Anyway, people should look at this map and take note of how far Taiwan’s ADIZ extends into Fujian province of mainland China and the open ocean (which is the southwest corner the PRC’s airplanes were supposedly encroaching on). These articles are obviously published to make China seem more aggressive than it really is. Meanwhile the US, with the most powerful navy in the world, parades its warships through the Taiwan strait, which for some reason is not seen as a threat or provocation. Also Taiwan claims the mainland as its own territory. Oh, poor little Taiwan. Lol, get off it.
Yes, the ADIZ includes part of China, but this article is mainly about jets crossing the median line of Taiwan Strait. Also I don’t think Taiwan gets mad over any jets intruding the “overclaimed” part of the ADIZ.
How is calling out a Chinese bot or Russian bot racist? You are obviously pro-China and you didn’t read the article. That makes you a Chinese bot.
“How am I being racist? I’m just assuming anyone who disagrees with me must be a certain ethnicity and/or bot.”
This really isn’t too complicated. Stop using Chinese as a pejorative and “bot” as a thought terminating cliche. It prevents any meaningful discussion, and yes, it’s also very racist.
The term isn’t being used as a pejorative. The term is being used as an adjective to a pro-chinese social media commentator. Mister Doi Doi with NO history in lemmy.
You are obviously pro-China (…). That makes you a Chinese bot.
At long last, we’ve reached the molten core of psychotic liberal solipsism
Dudes making us wheel of time fans look fucking terrible smh
Anti Chinese government, pro Chinese people. Just don’t mention how many Chinese people actually support their government
That’s precisely the sort of argument one would expect from a NAFO bot. Hope you earned enough FICO credit points to buy food tonight.
Sir or Ma’am, I am a US citizen of Chinese descent and I assure you that you are being a cracker, and you can stop any time.
My bias is towards peace and against interfering in other countries’ internal affairs. Taiwan is part of China, this was settled in 1972. It’s only in recent years that the US has taken a hostile stance against the PRC since its peaceful economic rise has started to threaten US hegemony. This is not my fight, it’s not your fight, it is the fight of the US ruling class—its political establishment and its financial oligarchs. China and the US should be allies, and we should be putting our combined labor into decarbonization, healing the ecosphere, reparations for the global south, and preparing communities for the effects of climate change.
Also, my family immigrated from Hong Kong before it was released from British rule, so ~by your logic~ I should be against China, which I’m not, because I’m capable of critical thinking.
Oh, and one more thing:
Lmao Taiwan existing is bad
Cool, so lets ask the people living there (not those in power) what they want with their country.
Do you even know why the pro-independence party (DPP) lost so badly in the local election for mayors? Because the people were disappointed in what DPP had done with the economy, not because they didn’t agree with the foreign policies DPP was pushing! (Please note that I’m not saying most people agree.) In local elections, people are going to choose whoever they believe would be the best for the city/county, not the one whose views on China they agree with.
Additionally, if you look at the latest opinion poll for the presidental election next year, you’d be surprised to find out that the candidate from the pro-independence party is leading.
Source: am Taiwanese
ps. you made a typo in your comment. it was the 2022 local election, not 2020.
Because the people were disappointed in what DPP had done with the economy
inciting conflict with your biggest trading partner does tend to have negative effects on the economy
Well yeah I guess, but really it’s more about the policies they had been pushing domesticlly
i am sure the success or failure of those domestic policies were not in the least contingent on international political conditions. the economic policies of an island that imports 97% of its energy with a food self sufficiency rate of around 30% and exports accounting for 70% of gdp can in no way be considered to be overexposed or at risk to trade fluctuations and even if that were the case, i am sure that foreign policy would not play an outsize role in determining the magnitude or periodicity of said trade fluctuations.
Because a poll asking a direct question is a hell of a lot more accurate in gauging how the population feels about the issue.
Political parties can lose elections for their stances/actions outside their main one – which seems to have been the case per the actual person from Taiwan that responded to your comment. It doesn’t matter what a party is called or what their main goals are if they’re bad at their job.
If and when the people of Taiwan decide they want reunification, it will happen. Thankfully Beijing isn’t going to be allowed to force the issue.
You want polls, how about this poll conducted by a Taiwanese university where the majority of Taiwanese want neither reunification nor independence, but the status quo? The majority of Taiwanese people wanting the status quo lines up with how the pro-independence party ate shit while the pro-status quo party made huge gains. The DPP got BTFO so hard the current DPP president Tsai Ing-wen had to resign as party head.
The majority of Taiwanese people has always wanted to remain status quo, as indicated by the two triangle data lines in the plot. Since declaring independence is basically asking China to attack and that peaceful reunification is not desirable (for >90% of the population) either, the majority are of course pro-status quo. It does not line up with how DPP ate shit last year.
peaceful reunification is not desirable (for >90% of the population)
Again, this was “forced” reunification in that poll, i.e. military takeover. Of course people oppose that. I think at least the plurality opinion is against peaceful reunification under the PRC too, but it’s not by as high a margin.
Thank you for mentioning me. Makes me feel like not all people on this thread is pro-China. :D
Like asking yankoids what they want to do with “their land”, the question is pointless and only serves to legitimize a faulty preposition.
The ROC also still claims to be the legitimate government of all of China (plus Mongolia and a sizable chunk of Russia) so its not like they’re just sitting there minding their own business either.
The ROC also claims the South China Sea as its own and has build naval bases in there. Even the DPP doesn’t want to give up those naval bases. So, it’s the Republic of Taiwan to stick it to the Mainland commies, but “akctually, we’re the Republic of China, and the South China Sea is part of Chinese naval waters, so we get to build as many naval bases as we want” to Vietnam and Indonesia.
It’s schrodinger’s China. Simultaneously an independent smol bean democracy and the only legitimate inheritor of a 4000 year old empire.
Yeah, obviously it’s a glorified puppet state but there’s no point in arguing from that standpoint here. If a country is to exist, it should know about local air traffic, that’s all I’m saying.
A glorified puppet state? What do you mean?
I started writing out a timeline but I don’t know what position you’re asking from so I will say for the sake of brevity that the US kept the KMT from being run out of all of China so that the US could us the island as a threat against China – as it also attempted to do in Korea when it had more-or-less complete control of the southern half. Taiwan spent about 40 years as a military dictatorship killing tens of thousands of dissidents, native Formosans, and others (this was called the “White Terror”), while their patron the US looked the other way while it pumped resources into the country (for the ruling class, mind you) to use the island as a sweatshop site in the interim. This legacy and its connections to fellow US puppet South Korea and US ally Japan go a long way to explaining its current capacity in manufacturing, which make up its other value to the US besides geographical position.
Both Taiwan and SK have made various attempts to assert themselves (with some success in both cases), but with the pathetic diplomatic position of the former and the continued military occupation of the latter by the US, I think “puppet state” is a fair title for them, perhaps as much as Israel, but that’s its own can of worms.
I didn’t really intend on getting into litigating this topic, but I’m happy to discuss it as best I can.
I started writing out a timeline but I don’t know what position you’re asking from so I will say for the sake of brevity that the US kept the KMT from being run out of all of China […] which make up its other value to the US besides geographical position.
Yes, I know about its not-so-glorious past and the White Terror. Thousands of innocent civilians were killed. It was terrible. However, I must respectfully disagree with you on the “puppet state” part. I don’t think that Taiwan is a puppet state. The US sponsoring Taiwan is a thing of the past. Neither is a pathetic diplomatic position a good reason for being a puppet state.
I didn’t see this reply before. The other commenter has it right that the relevance of its pathetic diplomatic position is that it is being propped up by the US/NATO and ultimately depends on them to exist apart from the PRC, which makes it very difficult to oppose them. Incidentally, does the US not sponsor Taiwan? Even just recently there was this, which sure seems like sponsorship to me.
Apparently being sponsored by a foreign state is now counted as being a puppet state?
if US support dropped overnight, reunification with the mainland would become inevitable. it’s a puppet state in the sense that it’s propped up by the might of the US/NATO military.
ehh yeah I guess so
Not only did the US turn a blind eye to the White Terror, but they were positively gleeful about it, as a key target of it was of course not only indigeneous-politics based, but fundamentally anti-communist.
Indeed a basic presupposition of the US providing you such extensive economic support, as a forward base in Asia against communism, is that you crush any opposition to its ‘proper’ functioning as such an economic and military asset. That supposes that you will crush any radical, labor, trade-union, let alone explicitly socialist or communist activity which appears to challenge the state.
It is not to exist. I don’t care about their air borders and I hope China flies wherever they please within Chinese territory like Chinese Taipei
The PRC wants a peaceful reunification, which would not be aided by them continuously flying military jets over the island. I, too, would prefer peaceful reunification, which means some level of cooperation and tolerance is necessary.
It’s going to require might and pressure and gunboat diplomacy, it’s denial and liberalism to pretend colonialists just give up their holdings
560 comments
damn this thread is still rockin’ huh
looks like shit
blame lemmy’s terrible Active algo. It’s a struggle session factory
Lemmy merely thought they could adopt the darkness, but we were born in it, molded by it
Most of the shit in this comment section is perched on a pair of swollen pig balls.
400+ comments
ha ha yes
