All smartphones, including iPhones, must have replaceable batteries by 2027 in the EU::undefined
Thank fucking god for the EU, for fighting for global digital rights where nobody else does.
According to republicans Europe is hell on Earth tho
mostly cuz EU gives rights and protections to consumers, not corporations
They’re still liberal and give a lot more to corporations than they do people.
And yet to us Americans, we see that the EU does a billion times more for its citizens and we wish our country could be half as good about the things the EU does right.
Grass is always greener…
Actually the Europeans I’ve talked to with a small couple of exceptions very much like their “welfare state” and mainly like America for its entertainment. They do not typically want to live here. I wish I could live in Europe badly
I mean I am European :D I wouldn’t wanna trade either. But there are definitely some people here who still believe in an American Dream or like the idea of earning more and spending less on taxes living in the US. Really depends who you ask.
I understand. Unless you’re lining billionaire pockets and actively hurting the poor, Republicans are PISSED
Anywhere that isn’t a fascist theocracy is hell on Earth to many republicans
I’m sure many places that are are still Hell because they aren’t majority white and not fascist enough.
No wonder, while plenty right wing parties are on the rise here, too, overall people are at least somewhat less removed from actual reality.
We have a fake economy. All investments, researching and efforts could be decided by state (we/public). Protecting society interests and not “investors” interests is an obligation
Does this mean we could potentially order phones from there as US folks?
Doubt Apple will have 2 different devices for each area.
One sensible right doesn’t overweight the never-ending bullshit coming from them.
And imo this is not a sensible right. To change a battery in phones is easy even now. All you need is heat gun (hairdryer), new battery, phone tape (2$ ali) and 30 mins of your time…
Also watter resistance will take a hit… I wouldn’t sink my phone under watter with detachable back cover even if it had ip68 by producer. They don’t even cover it in reclamation now.
Compare to how it used to be, removing the battery cover and replacing the battery on the fly. And water resistance with removable batteries has been and can be done. Stop with this nonsense.
One sensible right doesn’t overweight the never-ending bullshit coming from them.
True. Between the private healthcare, abortion rights, school shootings…
Oh wait, you weren’t talking about the US?
I came across this insane opinion piece the other day: https://www.laptopmag.com/features/mind-eurown-business-for-the-sake-of-the-iphone-apple-needs-to-fight-back
It’s so surreal, it feels satirical
Say, “We at Apple, Think Different.” and refuse to be shepherded into the flock with the likes of the dirty android heathens. You can’t give in so easily. First, they’ll take your Lightning ports, then they’ll take your internal battery and IP68 rating, and before you know it, they’ll take your blue iMessage bubble too.
At that point, why even bother? You might as well throw a Qualcomm Snapdragon in the next iPhone and call it a day. Congratulations Apple, you have the best UI of any Android phone on the market.
What the actual fuck?
You swear this isn’t satire?
and before you know it, they’ll take your blue iMessage bubble too
Nobody tell this guy what the EU’s Digital Markets Act means for Apple and iMessage…
I haven’t heard of this. What does it mean?
Messaging services need to be interoperable.
I love how higher IP rating is always the argument, it looks like everybody in this planet is doing daily deep diving and needs its smartphone to do that 😅
My Galaxy XCover 6Pro has a removable battery (and headphone jack) and is ip68 rated
I have a Samsung Xcover (5, not 6) and this thing is such a breath of fresh air!
16:9 screen, audio jack, good USB-C, SD card, removable battery, physical shortcut button that’s programmable to anything, decent performance (some newer phone games like Genshin don’t run well, but emulated NDS games or Morrowind? Just fine!)
And this is SAMSUNG‽
Where’s the world going‽
Phones with IP67 or even IP68 exist with easily replaceable batteries.
You’d think they’d figure out a way to have those high IP ratings and have removable batteries (they have afaik)
I sure hope it’s satire, but that pun!
“Mind EUROwn business?” chef’s kiss
I… Couldn’t even make it through the whole article. Absolutely insane.
Are you sure it isn’t satire? I prefer to believe it is.
Man, Tim Apple sounds pissed.
Looking at this guy’s other articles, unfortunetly it does not feel as satire.
it feels satirical
That’s because it is satire.
All we need now is a headphone jack
We need SD cards more. They removed them so they can charge you 300 $ to upgrade 128gb and to force you into shitty cloud service.
Again, just anti consumer bullshit spearheaded by Apple and gargled by Samsung.
I have flashbacks to using external storage on Android. It was such a shit show of an API. That being said, external storage, to break away from cloud storage is the next needed thing. We need to own the data.
Again, just anti consumer bullshit spearheaded by Apple and gargled by Samsung.
Samsung was actually one of the later Android manufacturers to drop it is my recollection.
Yeh and fuck them
Agreed
I’d be almost ready to say that we don’t need them any more if Bluetooth headphones were about 100x better and cheaper
At the same time, wired earphones/headphones are already just as good with a lot less parts/complexity.
You don’t need batteries, radios, and chips for coding/decoding a signal coming out of a headphone jack. You can just plumb it straight into the speakers. No need to mess with controls and all of that, which would make them a lot cheaper.
Don’t forget how new Bluetooth headphones require that you download an app to set up the headphone. So a whole new data harvesting broker forces itself right where an audiojack used to be.
Check on the AppStore’s the kind of personal data one has to handover to tune the headphones. Total fuckery!
Still too much lag. I love my QC45s, but there’s still just enough lag to bother me
Bluetooth 5+ definitely made wired headphones obsolete for me.
But now you have to charge two things rather than one. Some people would prefer not to have to do that.
Can’t imagine that getting mandated unfortunately
Definitely. Never understood why some manufacturers removed jacks
Money from selling true wireless earbuds was too enticing. Even Fairphone made them and removed headphone jack and spat nonsense that it was a “point of failure.”
The argument was saving space for other parts. That’s true in a way. But if things needed we should have this space. What’s next? Saving the space of the charger? /s
Headphone jacks are a 19th century invention, if having them restricts innovation then I am all for removing them.
A “19th century” technology that objectively produces better sound quality and uses less energy. And I already have wired earbuds and headsets.
Technically 20th century, if I’m not mistaken? I just don’t see how they would restrict innovation, I guess
Apparently it’s based on a plug invented in 1878, according to the BBC.
Interesting! It’s cool to know how stuff we use/used was developed
By that logic let’s just replace the most superior household plug. The 3 pin UK plug.
Unless there’s an alternative, no it’s not restricting innovation.
We can’t only consider innovation today, we also have to consider its ecological impact. Jack plugs and headphones are way more durable than Bluetooth equivalent. I have 16 yo jack headset that still works perfectly, I only had to change the cushions twice.
So stop making any technological advancement because of the potential impact of e-waste? Not saying it’s a bad thing but it will have have its own environmental implications. No new energy development, we have to rely on existing oil and nuclear technology rather than investing in making renewable energy sources cheaper and more efficient.
At the point we are at, yes we have to make a major change, e-waste is an immense problem for many years and we are only starting to fight it.
Inventions not thinking about e-waste at all shouldn’t be allowed anymore.
It’s not an either-or situation, we can do both at the same time, we just have to consider environmental impact as an essential component of innovation.
It’s specifically the wire that always breaks first. How can they be more durable?
You can repair a broken cable fairly easily. Especially on higher end headphones. Sometimes you can even buy replacement cables right from the manufacturer.
When you buy wireless headphones you know upfront that they will die within a few years and you will not be able to replace the tiny glued in, oddly shaped batteries they come with.
I like the convenience of BT at times, but I really miss having headphone jacks and hate having to bring adaptors with me.
If you can financially, buy (second-hand) higher-end material, it will come with stronger wires and stronger connections.
For example, see the difference in the constraints damper on these connectors:
vs Apple’s:
Jack being simple technology, it’s also very easy to get it repaired by the nearby tech enthusiast armed with a soldering iron.
So are speakers and batteries.
True, but we don’t have any practical alternatives for them.
What’s the practical alternative to headphone jacks? Bluetooth is crap and carrying around extra dongles is annoying.
Bluetooth headphones are more practical due to not having wires. Jack is better for latency.
Practical for some scenarios, but impractical in others. A headphone jack also offers better sound quality overall and a less flaky connection, with no audio cutouts. It’s not just latency, it’s a superior and more reliable way to transmit high quality audio. And there’s no battery to worry about charging. And a standard set of wired headphones can last for DECADES while a Bluetooth headset will start to die in about five years or less because the battery is non-replaceable lithium-ion. And there’s no concern about whether your wired headphones are optimized for Android or iPhone, it’s a standardized connector with an identical experience on both. And there’s no issue with wireless interference on the 2.4GHz band that Bluetooth operates on.
I can come up with more if you want.
It’s NOT just phones.
It’s EVERYTHING with a battery. Including cars, laptops, e-bikes, video game controllers, headphones etc. (im not even sure if there are exceptions, such as tiny tiny “airpod” like things… ?)
And they must be (with a few exceptions) replacable by a “layman”, without the use of special tools - which means no heat pads, to soften up glue etc etc. (and for gods sake, i hope it also means apple can’t hardwareID lock a battery)
an exception mentioned in the EU document about the law says, high power batteries for example in an electric car, must be done by a profesional - but of course it still has to be “replacable” and not… tear the whole car apart and rebuild it using new batteries.
replacable batteries in headphones, bluetooth mice, laptops etc, is gonna be awesome.
and lets not forget, they have to recycle the old ones - and produce new batteries using recycled materials.
in fact, i will try to hold on replacing my current (2 year old) phone, and wait to get one before 2027. Usually the battery turns to shit in 3ish years.
Stand back everyone, I’m going to attempt nuance.
Industrial design is about tradeoffs. Making the battery easily replaceable will come with drawbacks. Maybe it’ll be size, or water resistance, or durability, but something will have to be compromised. The extent of the compromises remains to be seen, and people will have different opinions about whether it’s worth it.
Ordinarily I’m not a fan of regulators making product design decisions, because that’s exactly the kind of thing market forces are supposed to be good at. In this case, though, there’s a demand that’s clearly not being met, and companies clearly have a vested interest in pushing consumers toward replacing their old hardware rather than repairing it, which creates externalities markets are unable to account for. Market failures like this are exactly the kind of situation where government regulation is needed.
If by size you mean it’s going to become fatter, I’m all for it. PSP Slim was basically as slim as I need for things which go into my pocket. Laptops don’t, so these can be twice fatter than that.
About “market failures” … This particular “market failure” is strongly connected to patent law, which cuts down most of the potential competition. So maybe it’s not a “market failure” at all if you have monopolies and oligopolies because of patents. Because patent law is not a market mechanism, obviously.
Considering Samsung during their cost cutting days designed Galaxy Xcover Pro 2 without drawback just fine, I think everyone will be able to do it without drawback just fine as well.
Maybe it’ll be size, or water resistance, or durability, but something will have to be compromised.
definitely size at the least. We’ll probably have to go back to removable backs so I imagine water proofing will be difficult without adding at least a little size.
Industrial design is about tradeoffs
Nope, for battery removal, nope!
Are you going to say that pentalobe screws is also a trade-off.Also, smartphone are just too thin and it’s because you use a case that you tend to forget about it.
It’s fine to say that the tradeoff doesn’t matter to you because you’re fine with the extra size, but it’s kind of absurd to claim that there’s no tradeoff and also claim that the tradeoff isn’t a big deal in the same comment. Some people may prefer the slimmer size that non-removable batteries allow, and we should at least accept that a downside of this regulation is that those people will be left with fewer thin options, even if it doesn’t seem like a big deal to you or I.
My phone has a removable battery and it’s like 7-8mm thick.
I take in account what has been done by the past in the last decade, a Samsung Note 4 (8cores, 4Gb, etc…) had its battery easily replaceable and it is not any bigger than an iPhone 14!
Sorry, but that’s an awful comparison, and it isn’t even true. The Note 4 was actually ~10% thicker than the base iphone 14, despite having a smaller screen, slightly smaller battery, and not having waterproofing. Obviously most of that discrepancy is because the Note 4 is 8 years older than the iPhone 14 so it really isn’t a fair comparison, but I wasn’t the one that tried to make the comparison in favor of the Note 4.
We really don’t have any reason to disagree, we’re both in support of the new law. I agree with you that the drawbacks are probably going to be minimal and that the tradeoffs will likely be worthwhile, I just still think that it’s dishonest to say that we know for certain that there will be absolutely no drawbacks, or that phones with no drawbacks have existed. I’m just asking for a little bit of nuance instead of dogmatism.
I am not fighting you, pal. I just want to avoid the argument “it’s not because you don’t need it that bla-bla”, of course, I prefer protection but we need to find the right tradeoff, Glueing case, removing and risking to break a glued expensive and serialized screen to reach the battery: nope
Sorry, but that’s an awful comparison, and it isn’t even true. The Note 4 was actually ~10% thicker than the base iphone 14,
You don’t get it, first 10% (actually ~6%) is pretty ridiculous and I took the biggest phone at the time that people were buying and using, actually I still have it. :) We could take the Note20, which is 0.830mm thick (0.785 for the 14 Pro Max and as big). Clearly, in this model, the backplate wouldn’t have needed to get glued, if +0.020mm is all it needs to get a removal plate, let’s got for it. I take extreme high-end smartphone as a ceilling, smartphone too big to my taste but which people buy and use.
*When I’m back from traveling, I will compare my wife’s iPhone Pro max and my Note4, to see if this one is unacceptable. :)
You’ll still want a case even if the phone becomes thicker, so in the end you’ll still end up with more bulk?
where did you live the last 10years when battery were replaceable on highend smartphones?
Replied to the wrong comment?
Apple in 2027: This is not a battery, it’s a…umm … Ultra High Density Low Current Super Capacitor.
EU: Ok, then in addition to that UHDLCSC you also need a removable battery.
Yay! Another dongle!
Pesky EU throwing their weight around giving consumers more rights! --Brexiteer logic
Oh well hopefully we’ll (UK) still benefit from it. Easier to design one phone than “EU” and “Rest of world” versions after all.
Easier to design one phone than “EU” and “Rest of world” versions after all.
I mean … sometimes those companies consider it preferable to actually have two versions.
That’s already happening though. The US version of the IPhone doesn’t have a physical Sim while the “rest of the world” version does.
That’s a fairly minor alteration though compared to the redesign required to have a removable battery …
deleted by creator
*batterie exists out of two parts. One of them is fused to the screen.
They should also demand unlocked boot loaders and open drivers for all devices. That or steep penalties if they don’t support the devices for at least 10 years. We should have manuals and specifications for every component, really. We really need to reduce waste.
Can’t want to be able to buy used phone and just pop in new battery. Still we need a law to allow easier mobile operating systems development for third-parties.
I kind of doubt that support is dropped due to difficulty in development at this point, it’s pretty much planned obsolescence with a weakly credible excuse, the only thing that can truly work would be having a common AOSP image that you can switch to whenever you want, since that’s vendor neutral you wouldn’t have to wait for your phone maker to create their useless customization of the latest version of Android.
How I wish Android had been copyleft, maybe everybody would have concentrated development effort on a single platform then, instead of making awful skins with bloat, sponsored apps, etc. with extra features on top that should have really been contributed to mainline
Did you know about LineageOS ? https://lineageos.org/
Yes, but not all devices are supported and those that are aren’t officially supported, the makers actively make it harder to install other ROMs, except Fairphone and maybe a few others
You are not going to find many legislators understanding the difference between this and open documentation for iOS/Android developers.
A portable battery should be considered to be removable by the end-user when it can be removed with the use of commercially available tools and without requiring the use of specialised tools, unless they are provided free of charge, or proprietary tools, thermal energy or solvents to disassemble it. Commercially available tools are considered to be tools available on the market to all end users without the need for them to provide evidence of any proprietary rights and that can be used with no restriction, except health and safety-related restrictions.
I’m glad they got specific. I wonder where Apple’s self-service battery replacement program falls under this? AFAIK it’s not free. They charge a fee to rent the specialized tools, which are also proprietary.
This gives Apple a few choices:
- Make the tools commercially available, but at an astronomical price in typical Apple fashion
- Make the tools commercially available at a normal consumer price (unlikely)
- Make the self-service battery replacement program free (most likely, but will require a significant revision to the tools used since they are industrial-grade)
I’m not sure that #1 and #2 are options, I think Apple’s tools would still be considered “Specialized” or “proprietary” since they can’t have any proprietary rights or restrictions, so I don’t think that they can get away with selling them at a huge markup. I’m no lawyer, but to me that reads like they either need to give the tools away for free, or change the iPhone so it can be disassembled with regular screwdrivers. Given those choices, I’m thinking #2 sounds a lot more likely unless they can weasel out of some loophole
The current tools are not even close. Very proprietary, very specialized, not commercially available. Check out this video or this one. These things are rental only because they are exorbitantly expensive and only really useful to iPhone, and IIRC they differ for some lines/models.
This law absolutely will require an iPhone redesign, which I think is going to be somewhat controversial. If you check out the iFixit teardown it’s pretty obvious there is not a lot of space. Even the larger Pro Max is tight because I think in the case of the larger phones, they tend to fill the space with battery. What I think would be the easiest is make it more like the iPhone 4. In that version, there were like two security screws on the bottom, and then you could remove the whole back plate. Some battery would have to be sacrificed to add space for connectors and a retaining system of some sort.
I say controversial because this is probably going to mean less day-to-day battery, but I think I’m in favor of that rather than having to deal with going through Apple to do a battery replacement and get another year or two out of the device. If they make it more like the hot-swappable old days of Nokia’s and Motorola’s past, I can’t really see anyone being pissy. In practice these days, I don’t worry about battery life anyway, so it’s hard to not see this being a win.
As someome who was able to disassemble and repurpose multiple iphone 4’s.
This was the way.
unless they are provided free of charge
Honestly, they should have said “fuck you, no tools whatsoever to replace the battery.”
My mid-2010’s phone has this and probably the only reason I still have it (instead of contributing to electronic waste) is because I can replace the battery so easily, which I’ve done at least twice.
My current device and the two before that all have had removable batteries. I’ve always thought built in batteries are stupid and it’s nice to finally notice that other people agree. Hopefully they next mandate that it has to be able to be taken apart with a screwdriver and spare parts must be able to be purchased straight from the manufacturer.
Ya the only reason I get new phones is because the battery gets too weak. I could easily keep the same device for 5+ years if I could swap batteries
You can. It cost $15 every three years to have someone replace the battery for you or you can spend the hour doing it yourself.
On a pixel phone?
Yes. $15 and an hour. You can bring in your own battery or pay ~$60 USD for an official one. It’s all very easy.
This law won’t change shit. People are still going to dump their phone every 2 year.
The only reason I get new phones is cos OS updates stop flowing. That happens way before I notice any battery degradation. This law solves nothing.
I’m an android guy but you can solve that problem by going iPhone if so inclined
Really? How long does Apple support iPhones?
I’m not sure but a lot longer than android
Hopefully they next mandate that it has to be able to be taken apart with a screwdriver
It does include that, mostly. It says that any tools that aren’t commonly available without proprietary rights or restrictions (i.e. screwdrivers) have to be provided by the manufacturers free of charge
I prefer ip68 to easily accessible battery. I’ll need to change my battery maybe once every 3 years, but I need to know it can handle moisture far more often than that.
Psst those Brands are not your friends and might lie about their reasons to make batteries non-removable.
I prefer ip68 to easily accessible battery
You can have both. My Galaxy XCover 6Pro is ip68 rated.
The another benefit with removable batteries is that if you have two you can go from 0 to 100% charge in about a minute.
This is why I want replaceable batteries in small EVs like bikes and such, too.
And why I have thought for a while that it would be nice to have maybe 30% or so of electric car batteries be replacable with a moderately large rack in the “frunk” or trunk. But that’s just me.
Can be done with screws and rubber seal, no need for glue and glass.
EU is killing it right now. Charging port regulation and now removable batteries in everything. If companies are forced to produce different models for the EU maybe just maybe it will be cost effective to just make all their phones with removable batteries. One can hope, cause you know the US wont pass that type of consumer protection regulation.
So tempted to wait until 2027 to buy my next iPhone
Not a bad idea but there are flaws and this also doesn’t seem to address the issue of pricing or availability.
- So you can remove the battery, will you be able to buy one.
- They could prevent 3rd parties from making batteries that work.
- They could just not sell battery replacements.
- They could add more parts needed, like seals, screws that strip too easily, that annoying sticky tape etc.
The your last point the text specify that batteries can be safely removed and replaced using “basic and commonly available tools” and “without causing damage to the appliance or batteries.”
Yes, with basic and common tools. Doesn’t mean they have to be of quality, cheap metal screws for example. Hopefully not the case but it’d be annoying.
For example if they opt for the screw method, over the pop-off back (which I’d prefer). There will be screws to remove, most likely a gasket to replace, tape or something that ensures the battery doesn’t move around etc.
Even with current battery replacements, there is more parts then just the battery during the replacement. And of course “without causing damage” except if you have to remove the back that is glass and knock it off the table, that’s a +1 for apple, same if you loose a tiny screw or something else that is 1/1000 chance but Apple still makes money.
The neat thing about EU regulations is that they are iterated over constantly, so even if they don’t get it 100% right the first time, they’re able to nail things down in subsequent iterations. Look at how quickly they struck down any fantasies Apple had of still fucking people over with their own type c implementation fuckery. The direction the EU is taking is already doing plenty good for the entire world.
This insufferable shit is exhausting
Back in 2014 you just bought a spare and replaced it, nowadays they all want to play the same bullshit games Apple innovated on. It was was about time an authority that ruled over a market with significant purchasing power made a decision against it.
Although I think it’s too expensive, this is why we need frame.work to make a phone too (or any company to do this). Great idea, good products, their markup just seems too high imo.
Is the glass half full or half empty? For you, I guess it’s half empty.
Rules can be updated and tightened if needed. This is a good step, another could be taken if they don’t play nice.
We already have regulations about spare parts availability and pricing for some devices (mainly household appliances) - and it is planned to slowly enforce regulation for other device types over time. They’ll watch the market, and if apple decides to be stupid that’ll come pretty quickly.
Just like with the appliances where some vendors had their shops ready way before regulation we already have some phone vendors prepare for that - like Nokia selling some spares via ifixit. So if apple decides to play stupid games it’ll be up against vendors that’ll be completely fine pushing regulation through quickly as hurting apple will only benefit them.
Just like with the appliances where some vendors had their shops ready way before regulation we already have some phone vendors prepare for that - like Nokia selling some spares via ifixit. So if apple decides to play stupid games it’ll be up against vendors that’ll be completely fine pushing regulation through quickly as hurting apple will only benefit them.
You mean like Apple’s Self Service Repair, which has been available for a few years now?…
You mean like Apple’s Self Service Repair, which has been available for a few years now?…
Sure, if you call 1.3 years a few years…
They could start selling tiers of battery quality which TBH sounds awful if they make the best battery life duration paywalled.
Making them easily replaceable will create a market, a better one than we have today, almost any battery you can buy today as end-user are trash-tier.
Quality 3rd party batteries will rise up if the phone manufacturers fuck around.
Yeah, that’s possible. I’m more worried about a built in battery chip preventing users from sharing batteries, like once it’s installed, it’s activated and it’s locked to that device. Meaning you’d have to buy only from that manufacture and the price will be higher.
I’m hopeful that the EU would put a stop to this. They are pretty progressive on that front generally.
If i remember right, all those shitholes are addressed?
