Canada should just cut off non-vital trade to America until we have a new trade policy
Not to mention the “Governor Trudeau” extra-dumb.
God I hate politics-by-Twitter. I’m appalled that the US is turning into a fascist country, but I’m even more appalled by how pathetic, puerile and trashy the US’ new fascist overlords are. At least Hitler dressed in Hugo Boss and made speeches that enthralled people: MAGA dresses like tramps, Steve Bannon-stylee and bullies other countries like kids on the playground.
I think this is Truth Social with is worse than Twitter somehow.
Twitter and Truth Social are two subtly different flavors of fascist excrement.
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Truth Social - all Nazi all the time Xitter - Nazi friendly and “centrist” (closet Nazis)
No, Twitter is worse IMO. Truth social has always been a steaming pile of shit that non-fascists avoid. Twitter used to be viewed in a positive light and a lot of organizations and governments still use it as a communication medium - sometimes an exclusive communication medium.
Twitter used to be viewed in a positive light
It never was though. Studies always showed that it increase anxiety in the users. Hell, I’m trying to use Bsky to support artists trying to move away from twitter and the while it’s not too bad, the character limit is forcing me to simplify my thoughts to the point that they’re no longer specific enough not to create new conflict. Is this how twitter always was?
Twitter was awesome pre-2015 then something happened…can’t quite figure out what brought a bunch of assholes to the platform…hmm…
And if you feel forced to simplify your thoughts to fit the character limit, you’re simply using the wrong service
Partially coincidental but
(Found this yesterday because the same organization mirrors the president’s “Truths”)
Mastodon limits to 500 by default. Alternatives like misskey and pleroma are usually 5k or unlimited
Well, the person I’m commenting under is using the wrong service. But it’s easier to simply not comment or even “engage” in anyway then it is to get into arguments because of a miscommunication.
I considered Twitter as one of the horsemen of the apocalypse, and that was years before musk bought it.
It depends on what you mean my positive light but generally I would say you’re wrong. Twitter had a dedicated fan base well into this decade and was where every business and personality had an account for a reason. Yes people knew of negative social media effecta but Twitter definitely had a fairly wide spread cult following.
where every business and personality had an account for a reason
to sell shit
Also, it seems weird to say a mainstream social media platform cult following.
it seems weird to say a mainstream social media platform cult following.
I agree the word choice is a bit odd. I meant in the sense that Twitter had a dedicated userbase that used it a lot and sort of glorified it. You weren’t talking with your friends or posting online, you were “Tweeting at your mutuals”. The most succinct way I could put it was “cult”, in the same sense that movies and TV have “cult” followings: a dedicated group that enjoys and bases some part of their personality around it.
“Cult following” refer to fanbases for obscure media, like Wraith or Ice Pirates. Star Wars does not have a Cult following.
That shows clearly that these tariffs are there to distract (yes it they hurt Americans, Canadians and Mexicans, but he doesn’t care) to make media stop talking about Ukraine.
And ukraine is there to distract from tax cuts, and tax cuts and there to distract from the lost of medicare and the lost of medicare is there to distract from them stealing everything, etc etc
maybe, just maybe, they are just dumb and evil
There’s still a difference between the severity of some of these things.
With the right leadership America could undo tariffs or the anti-DEI stuff or even drastically redistribute that stolen wealth with the stroke of a pen. The damage to America’s alliances could be repaired over time, especially if they show broad commitment to reforming. These things suck and will hurt but are fixable.
You can’t sign a piece of paper to unfuck Ukraine, or restore gutted institutional knowledge or depose hereditary president-for-life Trump Jr.
I’m betting on more evil than dumb but I can be incredibly wrong.
Trump is dumb. Thiel, Miller, and Yarvin are evil.
Sony forget that the tax cuts actually increase taxes for most working class Americans by $3k a year.
It is all to distract from the dismantling of any apparatus that could block his next attempt to stay in power forever.
This is all misdirection.
The fact that they’re not even good at being evil somehow pisses me off even more at the whole situation
To be fair, the nazis were pretty fucking stupid too. The evil-cool, machine-like, storm trooper aesthetic they’re known for is cultivated, at least by a significant portion, by nazis overseas that wanted them to be likeable.
Some of it is cultural momentum, for sure. I also like Storm Troopers. But nazis really like Storm Troopers.
Yeah, I remember watching speeches by Hitler back when I was in school. I didn’t understand German so I didn’t know what he was saying, but I could at least appreciate that the Nazis knew how to project power and competence.
I always understood the fascist aesthetic to be something very macho, very serious-seeming, etc. I always thought the idea was that you had an incredibly charismatic strong-man leader who had all the answers. And, given that, I could understand how people could be taken in.
But, the MAGA aesthetic is so ugly. Their rhetoric is so unserious. Their leader is so old, fat and caked in orange makeup, and he sounds like an absolute moron. The people attending the rallies do comical things like wearing diapers. And yet, half the US looks at that and thinks: yeah, I’ll vote for them.
And then there’s Elon Musk. Every time he opens his mouth it’s less and less believable that anything he ever did was the result of skill or competence. Any time he talks about programming or system administration it’s clear he has no fucking clue what he’s talking about. When he talks about gaming he claims he’s one of the top players in the world, and yet it’s obvious he’s barely played the games involved. But, apparently Americans are so brainwashed that being rich means you’re “a genius”.
I hated George W. Bush, but at least I could understand how some people found his schtick endearing. I could understand how he harnessed people’s fear and hate and turned it into support for his “war on terrah”. But, with Trump my opinion of Americans has gone down to the lowest level ever. This is what works for you? Really??
Not to mention the “Governor Trudeau” extra-dumb.
Trudeau is probably above that, but it would be mildly amusing if he started calling Trump “comrade Trump” or maybe “vice-president Trump”
He called him “Donald” and republicans/maga are outraged!!! lol
We should all be calling him by his real name, “VP Krasnov”.
ETA: and “Murca” is now glorious “KRASNOVIA”
In 6 months, he’s going to be talking about how Canada started this trade war.
He’s basically saying it now. He is calling his current tariff “reciprocal”.
the classic American strategy of preemptive reciprocation
“Preemptive Reciprocation” I love it 😝
Premature reciprocation
“It all started when he returned my punch…”
Weapons of mass devaluation
Six months? At this pace I’m expecting tomorrow.
In 6 months the trade might drop from trade war.
Trump has already blamed Canada, along with every US ally, for “taking advantage” of the USA. Not so fun fact, these are the very same trade deals that Trump signed during his first term.
He hasn’t already?
They be talking about it for years. Kinda like how ‘Lost Cause Confederacy’ idiots call it “the war of Northern Aggression” even though it was started by the confederates shooting at an American fort.
I’ve already seen (USian) conservatives claiming that
That’s only if he’s still breathing in 6 months
He’s probably already saying this.
lol ours is retaliatory but theirs are reciprocal?
Eat shit asshole.
This guy doesn’t even understand those words. They’ve got someone writing his tweets now.
Seems like it. It’s not all in caps and misspelled. Can’t even claim it’s AI because at least it would try to duplicate him
He definitely has handlers writing his tweets. There was an analysis last time, coherent posts were written from an Android phone (the handler), rambling posts in all caps from an iPhone (Trump).
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Eh I deleted the comment because it can be taken horribly out of context, but what I meant was my ADHD medication gives me really weird thoughts late at night. But hey, I prefer weird thoughts to the depressing shit I think about without it.
All Trudeau needs to do is implement a reciprocal tariff that also increases by like amount. Boom, now you have an infinite tariff loop and a single transaction in either direction is enough to create infinite GDP.
Checkmate, economists.
Ya honestly Trump is so fucking stupid that it’s starting to feel like he’s doing a bit. Like is he mocking his own supporters at this point? I think the world needs to respond to trump with something exactly like this. Infinite tariff loop is actually a policy I would support unironically.
Well his first though after he clashed with Zelensky was “That will be great television”
Sound to me like he is just thinking in tv drama plotlines, but unlike on tv you can’t just cancel a show when everything goes to shit …
No, it’s because he has got orders to make a spectacle so he just says what he thinks, that it’s gone on for x minutes now time to enact the ambush, then he comments on the “great television” because he has accomplished the oligarchy’s mission to stage this farcical peace talk.
Long before you get to 100%, everybody stops buying it. Zero times anything is zero.
They can go above 100% too. Canadian chocolate bar $420.69 when?
yeah, but 0 times infinite is undefined, so who knows what’ll happen ;)
Is it though? Wouldn’t 0 times infinity still be 0?
Nope, look it up, it’s undefined.
You can define things that boil down to 0 x infinity that equal anything you like. It’s undefined and is dependent on context. Infinity isn’t this one number, it’s a concept that encompasses a lot of things, and the way you achieve an infinity matter.
Isn’t it anything divided by 0 is undefined? Granted, I only have a more or less intermediate level of math, but I was always taught that multiplication by zero is always zero. But then again, zero is weird and can break my brain just as much as infinity does.
Indeed, any number multiplied by 0 is zero, but infinity is not a number.
So then it starts to depend on what the 0 actually means, and what the infinity actually means, and depending on the context 0 x infinity can be all kinds of things.
Or a black market forms
Ok it’s starting to feel like a game now. Can we cause American hyperinflation by a targeted tariff feedback loop?
Or like the sort of thing a hostile foreign government might really want to have happen to the US…
Good thing we have agent Krasnov at the helm.
Tbh, I’ve been pondering just how regulated organized market manipulation is nowadays. With the market going through “corrections” because of tariffs and the FCC being completely defanged, a large group of organized retail investors have the opportunity to get up to some pretty funny business.
If by “funny business” you mean raise prices on products that don’t actually have tariffs on them, then it’s a safe bet that yeah, there’s going to be some funny business.
Just take something we import very little and slap a -200% tariff
-200%? The US government pays you 200% of what the import is worth?
No, because Canada’s economy will collapse long before the US economy if each side just keeps increasing tariffs. What Canada needs to do is make things cheaper for Canadians, not more expensive.
Take any law related to US intellectual property and decriminalize that.
Violating the copyright on Hollywood movies? Go for it. No charge.
Something you want to do is covered by a patent held by an American? Do it, you won’t be prosecuted.
Want to bypass DRM on a tractor, a printer, an iPhone, sell or give away tools to allow anybody else to do it? Feel free.
The biggest advantage of this approach is that if the US did the same thing with respect to Canadian IP, they’d have so much less to work with. The US has geared its economy towards producing IP, and then used trade deals to demand that other countries respect that IP or the US will put tariffs on their stuff. Well, clearly the US isn’t holding up its end of that bargain, so fuck 'em.
The only difference is we’re putting tariffs on things that we can source elsewhere vs the blanket tariffs from the states. But I agree we should also do all the IP stuff you mentioned.
Canada should add a 100% tariff on USA crude oil that we import (Canada import 0 I guess) and with trump reciprocal thinggy, automatically crude oil from Canada to USA would have a 100% tariff on it lol
He also wants his face on currency. The man is a menace
He also wants his face on currency
You have to be dead before that happens.
I’m sure someone would be willing to help
looking at Iran for the hail mary on that one…
I don’t think there’s any law requiring that
Not that it would matter if there was, mind you, seeing as there’s a whole thing in the Constitution about not having insurrectionists who broke their oath to uphold the Constitution be allowed to ever hold elected office again, and well…
For my fellow Americans, the best way to respond if Trump gets his face on currency is to go full cashless. Let his ass sit abandoned and forgotten in bank vaults across the country.
I’ve heard a joke that utilizes a dollar boll for the execution normally. A challenge to find a bird, a National monument, a dairy product, and an award-winning film on the dollar.
The joke is not legal to do. The first two are obvious and legal.
- An eagle
- The picture on the back
- Half & Half (tear it in half)
- Gone with the Wind (throw the pieces in the air)
Not something people could feasibly do since it’s an expensive AND illegal joke, but would still be funny.
What’s wrong with that? I also want my face on some currency :)
Well sure but you have to be able to force people to want to use your coins
And now we’re back in q simulation
Look forward to the day that orange shit stain is dead. Hopefully tonight.
Americans: Just imagine the White House is an elementary school…
Mate, can you imagine president Vance? Careful what you wish for.
If Vance were president Republican spines would start to grow back. Trump’s hold over Republicans is a major part of the problem.
Vance might not be The Guy, but I disagree that removing Trump solves the problem at all. He’s more like the most prominent symptom.
Before 2016, Trump in the minds of most Americans was some washed up reality show star from the 90s. He is, and has always been, an ugly, uncharismatic, racist piece of shit. If the conservative propaganda machine can propel this artificially colored, barely articulate moron to the top, they can propel just about anyone. The only caveat is that whoever they propel has to be willing to do anything, to destroy any international relationship, to flip flop at the drop of a hat, and to not ask questions outside of “how will this benefit me?”
Vance might be a selfish, uncharismatic idiot in his own right, but unlike Trump he does have two braincells to rub together. Fox, Newsmax, Rogan, and the like might not be willing to throw themselves behind that. But there’s no shortage of vaguely remembered, self-absorbed celebrities who will be willing to take his place. Think President Oz, or heck, maybe Hulk Hogan would throw his hat in the ring.
Point is, as long as we have a populace that disrespects education and science, and that’s completely unmotivated to participate in our gerrymandered and unrepresentative FPTP system, the propaganda machine will always churn out a shittier asshole next year. The worst of us will hand them the reigns, and Republicans will follow that asshole without question. Trump isn’t as special a case as people want to believe. We’ve been on this trajectory for decades.
You need to find a way to get the non-voting 35% of the eligible voter population to actually vote.
And also vote in their own interest. Near as I can tell, their lack of belief in the system stems from their lack of interest in learning about it as much as its actual flaws. One of the big strengths of conservatives is drawing in first time voters who don’t know jack about squat by playing on their fears–as racist and stupid as those fears may be.
Yeah but there’s no reason that trick needs to be a fascist exclusive.
I don’t think Vance has the charisma or character to keep the MAGA interests from eating each other and him.
I’m comfortable with Vance also eating a face full of patriotic American made lead.
Just need to kill them both
One hopes Vance doesn’t have the same vice grip on the balls of the Republican Party that Trump does.
Yeah… This.
Don’t get me wrong, if/when Trump dies, it’ll be a day that I’m a bit happier, but if he dies during his presidency, I know he’ll be immediately replaced by someone who is either just as bad or worse.
My only hope with Vance if he takes on the job, is that he’s such a fucking bootlicker that hopefully he’ll spend too much time sucking off corporate interests that he can’t do too much more damage than Trump has already done.
It’s possible, however unlikely, that someone will convince Vance to do the right thing for the wrong reasons (he definitely won’t do it for the right reasons), because someone else told him too… I have no illusions that he wouldn’t come up with the idea himself. He’s just not that bright in my mind.
The real problem is that Trump’s supporters don’t understand tariffs, and wouldn’t believe the explanation anyway because to them it just sounds like Orange Man Bad.
When the US imposes a tariff on Canada, importers of Canadian goods pay the tariff to the US government. To recover that cost they raise the prices they charge American customers. So Americans end up paying the tariff. The only damage it does to Canada is that the tariff could discourage US importers from buying certain goods from Canada if they can get them somewhere else without paying a tariff. That happens in some cases, but in others Canada is already the cheapest (or only) source of a high-demand item, so Americans will just pay the higher prices - the way they’re still paying jacked-up COVID prices for so many things, for example.
Millions of Americans, being too dumb or unwilling to grasp this, think these tariffs are Trump heroically saving them from the evils of foreigners who want to destroy their Freedom.
Millions of Americans, being too dumb or unwilling to grasp this
Reports from people who know him, Trump is one of these people. He clearly doesn’t understand the process.
“I’ve been in the room when it’s been explained to him, and he doesn’t understand it, but he likes tariffs,” Bolton said.
not to mention any potential compound tariffs on complex goods likes automobiles for example.
Prices skyrocket immensely.
The housing market is only going to get more expensive, etc.
By compound tariffs, do you mean extra tariff fees due to repeated trips across the border in the manufacturing process?
yeah, exactly. Complex manufacturing chains often ship things all over the place, if you’re crossing the border 2-3 times, that’s 2-3 times as many tariffs being charged. Which depending on what you’re doing, can be a lot of money.
The auto industry in particular is susceptible to this.
Ya. I watched the Doug Ford announcement, and he said parts can cross the Ontario border up to 8 times before making it into the vehicle or final product.
so $10 part -> $12.50 -> $15.625 -> $19.531 -> $24.414 -> $30.517 -> $38.146 -> $47.683 -> $59.60
So that $10 part from the first factory is now $59.60 and that’s before the fact that it probably increases in value at each step along the way to being refined into it’s final product.
Thats why he’s saying (as well as others) that they expect the factories on both sides to shut down within a couple weeks.
Edit: half of that if it’s a one way tariff where both sides didn’t put tariffs on the exact same items.
The areas where they overwhelmingly voted for the orange dumbass are in for a shock. Here is a list of the products that canda has put tariffs on.
Combined with a strong dollar that’s a huge blow to U.S. agriculture and manufacturing. FYI U.S. Agriculture is in the worst overall depression of the past 50 years. The strong dollar has basically has given the entire industry a beating.
Just wait until our first harvest season without immigrants!
A rapid increase in labor cost plus low prices. Now that’s a recipe for a fun party in bankruptcy court.
Obviously it’s the deep liberal swamp state’s fault. Trump’s going to make Canada pay for it.
Tariffs, and other taxes, are not entirely passed to the consumer. The producers are also losing money because they’re selling less. Taxes are paid both by the consumer and the producers, the proportion on how much each part pay is unknown for me.
Let’s say a bottle of Canadian Maple Syrup is $5 before.
25% Tariff is $1.25
Let’s say the company makes $2 on each bottle before tariff. They really need to make $2 per bottle to cover expenses
So if a company still wants to make $2 a bottle still.
If they sell for $6.25 to try to cover the tariff (25% increase)
The tariff becomes $1.56
Instead of making $5, they would make $4.69.
Instead of $2, they would make $1.69
If they sold the bottle for $5, paid $1.25 tariff
They would make 75 cents
The number for $5 is $6.67
If the company sold the syrup bottle for $6.67. Payed $1.67 in tariff (25%). They would make $2.
Now, of course, they want to sell it for $6.67. Will people pay the increased price?
They can’t just keep selling them for $5 and make basically a 1/3 of their previous profit.
Prices have to go up. How much is up to the consumer.
If the consumer is willing to buy Official Canadian Maple Syrup 🍁 for $6.67. The consumer is paying the whole $1.67 tariff.
An interesting thing happens when people pay $8. The syrup company makes an extra $1, Government gets $2 tariff. It’s a win for everyone, but the consumer that lost $3. (Kind of scary if Trump gets a Maple Syrup company in Canada, goes around, ignores, or pays himself the tariff and sells a bottle for $5. Both are true Canadian Maple Syrup, it just has his name on it. Are you going to buy the $5 or the $8? Even if you buy the $8, he gets $2)
The consumer can’t win. Free economy is better.
~33% increase covers a 25% tariff
If the price settles at $6.
Company pays 50 cents
Consumer pays $1
Trump gets $1.50
Who even is in charge of the “tariff funds”?
Like people are happy with having to pay $1 to get the company to pay 50 cents? Like that’s a win?
Sad reality is Americans should not buy anything with a tariff. Paying a premium to help support Canada seems like a good thing but if everyone does it and everyone pays 33% more. The tariff funds makes out like a bandit all thanks to the consumers.
TL;DR: Company facing a 25% tariff will look to raise prices 33%. If they can they are fine or better. Consumers lose. I really like Vermont Maple Syrup
Would you mind changing “instead of making, they make” by some other precise verbs? Your explaination seems very interesting but, probably du to my poor english, I feel like you saying the same thing over and over while changing the numbers and I can’t grasp your explanation.
So if a company still wants to make $2 profit per bottle.
Company raises price to $6.25 to try to cover the tariff (25% increase)
The tariff becomes $1.56 ($6.25 × 25%)
Instead of selling for $5 price, they would sell it for $4.69 effectively ($6.25-$1.56)
Instead of making $2 profit, they would make $1.69 profit ($4.69-$3(production cost))
If they still sold the bottle for $5, paid $1.25 tariff
They would make 75 cents of profit ($5-$3(production cost)-$1.25(tariff))
I see. Since the tarif is proportionate to the final price, the final price needs even higher than the initial price times (1 + tarif) in order to keep the profit the same.
Starting Price / (1-Tariff %) = Final Price Needed to Break Even
$5 / (1-.25) =
5/.75 = $6.67
If an item was $5 and there was a 30% tariff
5 / (1-.30) = $7.14
If there was a 30% tariff and the syrup company wanted to keep same profit they would have to sell each bottle for $7.14.
$7.14 × .30 = $2.14
$7.14 - $2.14 = $5
No, because (1 + tariff) isn’t enough to keep up with the tariff because as the price goes up, the tariff also goes up.
Like in the example going from $5 to $6.25 (5 × (1+.25)). Would result in 31 cents less per bottle.
It needs to be ~33% more or $6.67 for the syrup company to keep the same profit with a 25% tariff.
Final Price × Tariff % = Tariff Amount
Final Price - Tariff Amount = Cost of Good Sold
Cost of Good Sold - Expenses = Profit
So if you need $2 profit
$2 = (Final Price - (Final Price × Tariff %)) - Expenses
$2 = (X - (X×.25)) - $3
$5 = X - .25X
$5 = .75X
X = $6.67
Formula would be
Profit = (Final Price - (Final Price × Tariff %)) - Expenses
Thanks !
There is both downward price pressure and reduced demand.
It does not change the “who pays” question.
Just tell them it’s a 25% sales tax.
All this could have been avoided if one guy had slightly better aim.
People were thinking about that probably a lot in the 30s and 40s
Time travelers can’t do anything right…
I think about this a lot actually. So close
The guy had a pretty good aim. It was down to luck.
I think the shittier part of this is that if that whole thing hadn’t happened, Trump might have not won. He got the best PR of his whole campaign during that one minute.
Eh he was gonna win whether or not that happened. It helped his image certainly, but he was already well on the way to winning and Biden was already increasingly unpopular.
If the guy actually shot him we probably would have been okay though cuz I don’t think Vance has the same pull with the Maga base
@imvii Perhaps since little donny says he does not need anything from Canada we should shut off his electric and oil now. That would be before he could effectively replace it.
I’m down for it.
There is a little buzz that Trump is going to back pedal in a day or two, which would be hilarious. But I think we keep the pressure on even if he does.
None of this back and forth shit.
If he backpedals I still hope the LCBO donated all that American liquor to the Legion and bars for one ultra liquor holiday.
They pulled the trigger, I don’t want that shit back on the shelves, even if they do call taksies backsies.
They better not put that shit back on the shelves. It’s the 2nd time that we’ve pulled it off the shelves, and we keep putting it back on. FOR WHAT
It’s better to just sell it and not replenish the stock than to dispose of it all at a massive loss. The US sellers won’t get more money either way, but this way some losses can be avoided on the Canadian side.
“While Ontario-based retailers will have the discretion to sell whatever stock they have on hand, they will no longer be able to buy U.S. products from LCBO,” the email continues.
We do not have to buy it
Agreed. No backing down now. Keep the pressure on and increasing. This isn’t ending any time soon.
This guy is gonna start a war.
He already did. Tariffs are an act of war, especially when overtly related to annexation goals (as is the case here).
Economic warfare is warfare, just not with guns.
Trump doesn’t understand he’s a bitch no matter what he does.
God I’m exhausted.
At this point, we just need to cut it all off completely. Oil shipments, electricity, lumber, aluminum. All of it.
I know that that’s a hard ask for those industries that are affected, and if it means the federal goverment has to temporarily raise the deficit in order to subsidize those industries it’ll be crazy expensive and inflation will shoot up. But I’m convinced that that would be only a short amount of time that that would actually be needed.
Let the United States go one week without our stuff. 100%…fuck 'em. They’ll last one week. Maybe two. And when they quit their bullshit, make it clear that we are diversifying our business partners making it easier to pull it from them again anytime they let Trump open is fucking mouth.
Hold our resources hostage against them.
I mean, if we play all our cards at once, we have no cards left for the next thing, and in the process that might raise enough American political will to invade for real.
It should be and I think is all on the table, though, and I have no problem with it if they want to escalate, because we also need to raise political will to sever our ties for good.
we have no cards left for the next thing,
That’s the game, he’s bleeding you for cards.
If he’s going to attack you, he’ll bleed you first. There is no appeasing him permanently.
We have a deep deck (which is part of why playing the whole thing at once would be kinda nutty). Like every day someone mentions a new way to screw with them I hadn’t thought of. Cutting off power, cutting off water, taking their stuff and not paying, ignoring their intellectual property, cutting off Alaska…
Nobody is talking appeasement anymore, even Danielle Smith is getting muted about it. The question is how to help Trump ruin himself the best, politically and economically.
Who gives a damn about the deficit. When did that ever really matter?
Economical MAD is not the answer here. It’s a very complex subject that is difficult to solve.
It’s a very complex subject that is difficult to solve
In a sane world, I agree with you. But we’re dealing with a man who himself doesn’t realise its complexity and only understands strategies that are “blunt and absurd”.
We can use as nuanced and soft-toed strategies all we want and he’ll never get it through his orange head.
Yes, we’re dealing with a madman. You’re suggesting we act just like him. No, harming more people voluntarily is not the answer.
(not canadian, or american; take that as you will)
not acting like him: acting in retaliation with measures that hurt the US more than canada… things like IP and copyright protections, digital services, etc
his blanket measures don’t take into account trade that’s largely beneficial to US companies - they’re stupid blunt instrument crap because thought is too hard… trump hurt himself in his confusion
retaliating in precise ways can extract value from the US without harming the canadian economy nearly as much
As I saw someone link yesterday, John Bolton (noted warmongering piece of shit) said he was in the room during Trump round one when people were trying to explain tariffs to him. Bolton says he was unable to comprehend.
absolutely… and in those hands they can still be a damaging weapon, but they’ll never be as powerful as someone who knows how to wield them correctly. brains can win, or at least provide a formidable fight… but no matter what, both sides will feel pain
It’s not Mutually Assured Destruction though. It’s not even retaliatory. If Canada were to immediately stop all exports to the US and pivot to an EU/China based economy the fallout would disproportionately affect the US. The key to this is that Canada is the smaller and more insular trading partner.
Case in point
The destruction is mutual, but not assured and total (total just didn’t make it into the acronym). Nuclear war isn’t a good analogy.
Basically, do we want to continue relying on the US, or not? Not doing so has a cost, but we might not have a choice. Canada can survive without the US, if in a slightly poorer form.
Canada still has decent friends to trade and work with. Can’t say the same for the Fascist States.
I worry that Canada will not be able to export efficiently due to lack of port infrastructure, especially on the Pacific Coast. Massive industrial ports are expensive and take years to bring online.
Y’know, if you’re willing to make a few small concessions on who is ultimately in control of your country, I know this great authoritarian dictatorship that’s been investing in new port infrastructure projects all around the world.
Yes, me too. It’s really hard to find information on how much extra capacity there is, although I’ve seen indications it’s not zero.
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It will be a shit show until Canada and the rest of the western world work out agreements independent of the US.
Isolating a fascist power with the strongest military in the world doesn’t work. Eventually they work up the balls to use it.
Every nation should be prepared for what happens when the purge of the US military and government is complete and only loyalists hold power.
Given that there are no ideal moves in any direction, I feel that standing up to the bully is the only option on the table. They failed to do that in 1939.
It is still the right thing to do. As you say, we just all need to be prepared for it.
And another thing. Its America’s job to police this mess, they installed him either directly or indirectly. The rest of the world didn’t ask or vote for this dangerous toddler.
There are plenty of the dead who weren’t responsible for what killed them.
I’m not sure what to make of that in context. Do you mean that we should just suck it up?
Suck up the reality that counting on Americans to handle Trump isn’t a plan, it’s a hope.
Don’t fret… I have absolutely no expectations that Americans can pull out of this power dive. I just hope that most of the damage will be self inflicted.
What happens if a NATO country Attack another NATO country?
No joke, I can see UK and France offering nuclear retaliation response promise to Canada, outside of NATO. I think trump really is dumb enough to start real war with for example Canada. NATO is dead, rest of the west needs to make similar protection agreements without USA, besides NATO , for when shit really hits the fan (I think it will, it’s a matter of when, not if).
Well, article 5 doesn’t apply then. Other agreements may still apply.
Of course it applies! Where are you getting that it doesn’t from?
From article 5 from the NATO treaty actually. It states that it applies to attacks from external actors, i.e. non-members.
Edit: the article or nato treaty doesn’t state it that explicitly actually. But a quick google show that it’s at least the consensus interpretation
It has been hotly debated, mostly in regards to Greece and Türkiye, who have been at each other’s throats for decades. In that case, the aggressor likely wouldn’t be obvious and both are likely to claim article 5. Their relations to other NATO members are also a lot more ambiguous, some favoring one, some the other.
In the case of a rogue USA attacking Canada, or Denmark, I believe the case would be a lot clearer.
it states that it applies to attacks from external actors, i.e. non-members
Which America would be if they leave NATO…
Over here in the EU we still need gas and oil. I’d much rather import it from Canada than from Qatar or some other middle eastern dictatorship.
As a Canadian I agree but that is difficult. Canada is so integrated with the US that they basically refine all of our crude. Canadian crude is unlike crude from anywhere else and has to be refined a certain way. So we have to build refineries or you do, that can handle our capacity. That takes time and certainly won’t be instantaneous. It’s not like we can just divert.
Yeah plus the transport would be much more expensive. But I guess building your own refineries will give much more flexibility for the future…
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We’re already doing that. EVERYBODY is doing that. every western nation is doing their best to cut America out of their trading deals. Donnie has seriously fucked America over.
that’s sure to bring down the price of eggs, right? right?
They should call it “The Free World Agreement”.
